The latest newsletter from the IAHP says
[i]One of the great modern myths is that children need other children to become “socialized.” The exact opposite is true. The notion that little children learn how to be civilized from being with each other has little to recommend it. What can a three-year-old teach another three-year-old? Answer: How to behave like a three-year-old.
When we place tiny children together, the result is chaos. If one child is a biter, then other children get bitten and learn that biting may be useful in self-defense. Generally, this is not the kind of social idea that mothers want their children to have.
Sometimes mothers are convinced to put their child with other children in what are called “play groups” or “kindergarten” because mother wants her child to learn to share. Mother believes that this cannot be learned at home from her. Sharing is an admirable and worthwhile objective. But two and three-year-olds are not ready to share anything. Instead, they defend their belongings against any and all comers. The “play group” only stays civilized if each mother stands right next to her child and protects that child from all the other children in the group. “Sharing” occurs only when mother pries the beloved toy truck out of her child’s grasp and hands it to another child, who then gets a death grip on the truck until his mother says that he has “shared” the truck for long enough and it is pried out of his grasp to be returned to its little, very anxious owner.
If the above scene takes place without a mother with each child, then the result is much worse. Without mother at his side, the child will simply fight to keep his toy or be overpowered by a bigger, more aggressive child. He either learns to fight or to flee.
Is this socialization?
Civilized behavior begins at home.
When little children are herded together like so many little lambs with only a few shepherds to protect them, we are foolish to expect “socialization” to be the result.
Little children do not need other little children to become socialized - they need mother and father. Civilized behavior is learned at home from mother and father. Children learn right from wrong from mother and father and grandmother and grandfather, or they do not learn it at all. The longer a small child spends with his mother each day, the more civilized he will be. The less time he spends with mother each day, the less civilized he will be.
All mothers know that.
[/i]
This raises important questions for me. Gabriel has never been around other children. I often wonder if I should find a play group or another child for him to play with. I do worry about him picking up the bad habits of other children though. He has spent every day, all day with me since he came home from the hospital. Is this enough as the newsletter says? Am I doing better for him by not socializing him with other children? He knows how to share. He signs please and thank you. I know these are things that the typical 14 month old does not do. What do you guys think about the newsletter? When did you start socializing your child/ren? Would you do things differently?
thats right
i also thinks the same. even now i dont let him play with other children. sometime he play with his cusins, but i always stays with my child. he is too small to share with oter children. even i dont want send him school at the age of 2.5 [baby nursery]
what is ur idear
I understand where you are coming from, i do not want little Sophia to pik up bad habits either but unfortunately for me Sophia will have to go into daycare as I have to return to work for finacial reasons so therefore will be socialized with other children from an early age.
I think there comes a time in every childs life that they must learn to play with other children for they need to learn how to relate with their own peer group but alo because of other aspects as well, team play, getting along together, learning to share and so-on, but in saying that most children are not ready to socialise with other children until the age of 2.5-3 when they start to realise there is a world going on around them outside of themselves and the ego has developed.(This si what i have learnt from the montessori school where even in the infant program all the children younger than 2.5 tend to play by themselves without really noticing that there is a room full of other children) Sharing is not encouraged at this stage because they are not ready but each child is taught to wait there turn if another child is doing an activity.
Maybe this is a case of watching your son and seeing when he is ready to start playing with other kids, he may want to join in the other kids activites, or go run around on the play equipment together, Or he may point out other children to you, then you will know it is time to join a playgroup.
Trust your instint and trust your son you wil know when he is ready to play with other children and if that is now then you are the only judge of that.
My little one spends most time with me, but once a week for about an hour we go to mothers group. He seems to really enjoy the other children. they are all roughly the same age. I see him chatter alot more and explore the other children by gently touching their arm, leg or face. Toys get mixed up every now and then, but so far nothing ‘bad’ has eventuated from that yet.
When I go back to work, I was concerned that as it will be looked after by his grandparents he would not be socialised - only because so far he seems to really enjoy the other children. I do hope that he will get an hour or two a week with other kids, but if he doesn’t, I’m not too concerned as he will get it when he goes to pre school at 4 years. I look back on what happened to me and by brother and sister, we stayed at home with mum and grandma, and I think we all turned out ok!
My twin girls are 19 months and we stay at home, more often than not, mostly because our family had only one vehicle for the last seven years, and my husband works a lot. He encourages me to go out, despite that it takes several hours (2 - 3) to get ready to leave. We just purchased a van (yippeee!), that sits in the driveway, begging to be driven. However, now that the weather is more cold than typical in the Northeast, USA this season, we are keeping indoors until it gets to at least 35 degrees. I take the girls out to the store and doctor’s appointments, or anywhere so the trip is at least two hours long. I personally cannot handle spending 2-3 hours to get ready to be out for any time less than this, with them at this age. And since recently learning about the Doman method and www.brillkids.com, it is all the better reason to spend this time at home in a more educationally productive manner.
At any rate, the following article is insightful for other countries and the starting school-age:
I think the article is correct. Kids learn better things from parents and older siblings (with oversight). Anything from manners to reading My visits to playground sometimes turn to terror. Like the time at the zoo playground when a 1y.old just came up and bit Niki on the upper arm. I had to pry him away as the mom wasn’t watching >:( Nice birthday trip. Poor kid.
Don’t worry and keep him home while you can. Saying hello to the neighbours,visitors and the like is enough.
I have to agree with the IHAP here… often when I do take my 2 year old (who is very advanced compared to the other 2 year olds) to a community play group he picks up something “Intersting” For example, a little boy liked to throw tantrums there and throw himself on the ground when he didnt get his way… and lo and behold my son took careful observation at the play group and then for the next 2 weeks mimiced the way the other child acted…
I noticed that he knows he knows things that other kids his age dont know yet… and he speaks close to a 4 year old level at 2. My son uses words when playing with a train track… ohhhh look at all that potential energy on top of the hill… the trains moving mommy look at the kinetic energy!!! Look mommy steam is coming out from that kettle evaporation… he sees a musical string intrument and will exclaim vibration causes sound… etc. etc.
HENCE… its noticable to many parents that my son is different… he know his shapes, and signs over 500 words on top of speaking. He also knows a lot of words in Spanish… and when people hear that he is only two they point out how advanced he is…
I mention this because… he has started to notice he is a little different… and hence sometimes I think he wants to try what some of the other kids are doing… and although frustrating at times I try to look at it as alearning opportunity to talk about what we saw and what he felt, what I felt and I tell him sometimes that what one child is doing is not appropriate behaviour and if he decides to try it out at home I tell him thats not appropriate behaviour and ask if he knows a better way to express himself…
All this rambling in the end I think its a fine line. Kids do learn from exposure… and being with other children in a social setting can be benificial because they can learn natural consequences from their peers. Often at social settings there are different activities which is wonderful exposure…
Its a very fine line… and I think we have to be strong sometimes as parents to say okay the child that my child is playing with is not having a positive influence over my child… what do I need to do to change this situation… even if that means sometimes not biting my tongue in order to explain a lesson to my child… What that has been done I try to be tactful, polite to all involved because my child is learning from my reaction as well.
i found this forum very informative, i never thought there are so many challenges in raising a kid. and i have learnt so much from this particular topic where i will know what to expect when its my turn to come.
I started taking Marina a few months ago to the early years program here in Ontario. My doctor had been pushing it and disapproved that I hadn’t taken her months before. Now, I don’t have a great deal of respect for my doctor, but I thought I should at least check it out, for the kid’s sake. We generally go twice a week for an hour or so to predetermined classes where there are songs, a story and sometimes a craft. I always ask her if she wants to go play with the other kids before we get ready to go and she always says yes, but it’s playing with different toys and interacting with Sarah, who runs the classes that really appeals. She’s a different child around the other kids, too - not as outgoing and confident as she is at home or when we’re out with my friends. But she keeps saying she wants to go and I don’t think it’s doing her any harm, so… It would be nice if there were other mothers there that cared about early learning - we’re definitely in the minority as far as that goes.
My personal opinion is that everything that child likes is good for him. (Except modern things like hamburgers and colas - evolution has no experience with them.)
Child likes early education because he/she needs it.
Child also likes hugs of mum. And scientists approved that hugs are crucially necessary for children development (see http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep05102183.pdf , John Bowlby and other).
Children like cradling - and scientists show that it is necessary for physical development.
My child also likes to watch other children. So I think it is beneficial. And there are some things to learn from other children. For example, to crawl
In old times, people lived several families together. They still do so in primeval areas. So it is the most natural way how to live, and we are adapted to it.
And my another opinion is that the safe attachment and self-confidence are much more important than encyclopedic knowledge. Often, self-confident people are much more successful and happier than clever people. I also had rather wrong childhood, and I had a depression for most of my life. So, the safe attachment is priority for me and my child; knowledge is just an additional resource; it is not a priority.
During the last 20 - 30 years, there is much research on child psychology going on. Doman does not research children psychology. He also gives no references on attachment psychologists. Doman is not an authority on children socialization and psichology, He also does not pretend to be. He only gives few hints that support the natural parenting.
I too have to return to work but luckily my parents are going to take my daughter til June (Im a teacher) and then she will be with me for the summer and in September it is envisaged that she will be going to a small creche group. At that stage she will be one and she will be strong and able to move about and say a few things at least , or maybe more with the help of Brillkids! I teach 4-8 year olds and you can pick out the children that went to creche and does that didn’t. I personally feel that the first year of the babies life should be spent with family- familiar faces, faces that dont change- and a bit longer if possible but they also learn so much from being in an environment with other children. Children no matter how much it looks that they are playing together are not! Two children playing together and playing with the same toys are not interacting on a communicative level that we would associate with playing together as adults however they do in some fashion play off one another sounding as if they are having conversations. It is fascinating to listen too. I have brought my daughter to a mother and toddler morning and she sat watching the other children and whether or not she picks up bad habits from others in the future that is part of her development to learn right from wrong and my role as a parent is to reinforce that. And there is also a very strong possibilty that she will pick up good habits, things that she may not at home because she has no siblings.
My personal experience and my knowledge and own research shows socializaion does exceptional good to a baby below 12month but after that I’d advice be cautious on whom u r exposing ur child to BECAUSE it really affects them. Kyle was really obedient however active he is, until he was exposed to some toddlers fighting in front of him. this altered alot in his life n day in day out he started acquiring the ways other kids act…even recently he learnt from a friend’s 4yr old gal to complain n throw tantrums…but worst i am facig his new learnt way of hitting whenever things dont go his way…any idea how to stop that?
I’ve tried ignoring, making him apologise everytime he hits and even lettin him hit more! NO LUCK so far!!!
socialization can do both good and negative impact on the child. as kyle’s mom had mentioned, we as parents should always be carefull on whom we are allowing our child to mingle, since the children now adays are very smart, they pick up things easily without knowing which one is good or bad.
every time i take issam to the park, he finds it more interesting to play with big boys ages 7-10 rather than the kids on his age. is this normal behaviour?
hi kyle’s mom, im not really sure if i can give u an advice since im a newer mom than u r, however, i have read in some parenting articles which might help resolve ur chanllenge at the moment. have you tried “time - out” where in u keep ur child in a corner facing the wall for some time explaining what he did was wrong. accdg to the articles, parents should try to rephrase the words use to the child, in order for them to be clear on what u exactly want.
i currently cant access my mails, but once i manage to open it, will send to the link on the article bout parenting/discipline.
I find Marina’s more interested in older kids and adults when we go out than in her peers. I don’t think it’s particularly unusual.
As to the inappropriate behaviour, I highly recommend Barbara Coloroso’s Kids are Worth It. It’s a holistic approach to child-rearing that focuses on giving your child the gift of inner discipline. In fact, that’s the subtitle. It’s the best book I’ve come across on the subject.
Very interesting article and very true as well BUT I believe the most part depends on the parent…first by choosing the kids they play with (as much as possible especially in such an early age where this choice can be easily made) and second by discipline if and when they pick up something bad PLUS encouragement when they pick up something good… to me, socialization done right is a very good way to build your child’s character…by “done right” I mean with parental discussions afterwards…etc…this is the time where you instill most of the baby’s values and world-beliefs and this is the time when they will learn the most from you and believe you and seek to please you so why not take this opportunity and teach them how to deal with the outside world with its bad and good? Socialization now may teach them how to bite but later it will teach them how to steal or call names…it’s probably better to tackle discerning the bad from the good in the environment now when they are ready to listen to you than later when its harder for them to listen…
Of course, this is all AFTER choosing those kids he’ll socialize with etc…that’s the parent’s pre-emptive responsibilty
I do believe that trying to raise an exceptional baby includes his character as well and i agree that when you feel he/she is ready (through curiosity and interest in other kids), its best to find a good enivronment where they can explore this new part of living
I totally agree with the time out strategy did you try it? If you’ve ever watched super nanny that’s supposed to be the right way to do it… you go down to his level, look him in the eye and be very determined and mean every word you say and explain why what he did was wrong and why you will not listen to him if he continues doing it and why he has to sit in the naughty chair for 2 minutes. sit him down for two whole minutes, if he gets up sit him back down firmly… until he stays
when the 2 mins are over hug him and tell him that you love him and thats it…
the key is to be very clear and very consistent with this method it will work …jumping from one method to the other doesn’t work…stick to this…also don’t let him hit you! this is not ignoring! he is physically hurting someone and that shouldn’t be tolerated by any means and dont give in… I’ve seen people who do this and it works really well…
all you have to do is be consistent and very serious about it at first and later on it will be bliss!
Time out works but you need to explain to the child why they are there and then give them time to explain why they are they and apologise. I use it in school, we have a time-out chair. But would not recommend any child facing the wall- can have long term effects.
