Update about H.

I posted it a few days ago but anyway here it is.

Lots of big changes: we now use Supermemo/spaced repetition to review; we added MEP (the math program) to the other two we were already using, and Mama is teaching this (mostly); H. is typing more than handwriting, and he’s up to 15 wpm; curriculum is very “social studies”-heavy (not through any conscious choice, it just happened that way) between all the history, geography, and civics (U.S. Constitution stuff); we started going through science systematically and are 1/3 or 1/2 through introductory physics; H. discovered “Scratch” programming and wastes huge amounts of time on it; and he now practices piano for fun (yay!).

We LOVE mep math :slight_smile: Have you also looked in to Beast Academy??? At the moment I am using mep, math in focus (singapore math) , math mammoth, http://www.crewtonramoneshouseofmath.com/ , http://www.educationunboxed.com/, and will start to use hands on equations see here ( http://homeschool-ninjas.blogspot.com/search/label/Hands-On%20Equations) and Life of Fred.

I know this seems like a LOT for a math curriculum but honestly my kids LOVE it. They are ages 8 and just turned 7.

a favorite blog of mine is http://homeschool-ninjas.blogspot.com/ just fabulous…

I enjoy reading your posts and updates over the years. Homeschooling here in Florida is so easy and I hope you find it the same where you live. We LOVE homeschooling and are so blessed to be able to do so :slight_smile: All the best for you and your family …

Susan Khan

I too love reading your updates. We are 4 years behind you. But you give me some great ideas for the future.

Good luck ith your school district. I will certainly be interested in reading about how that goes. We will be doing the same thing in a few years. I am hoping state wide things are similar.

What language does H. speak with his mother? Does your family practice OPOL and is he being raised bilingually?

Yes, more or less we do use OPOL. :biggrin:

Hi Susan, we haven’t tried very many systems yet. I did look into Beast Academy and have seen people praise it, but looking back, I see why we aren’t using it–the books are only for 3rd grade, and H. isn’t there yet. I have looked at Math Mammoth in more depth, and it looks good to me. If we weren’t plenty occupied between Primary Mathematics (Singapore Math), MEP, and 5 times 5 is not 10, Math Mammoth might be our next choice. As to crewtonramoneshouseofmath.com, I’ve just learned about it like a couple of weeks ago. So, he’s all about manipulatives & Cuisenaire rods. I know I might incur the wrath of…various people…particularly if I were to say this in the WTM forums, but my personal opinion FWIW is that heavy use of manipulatives is a bit of an unnecessary gimmick. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t criticize people who use that stuff heavily–after all, we use our “connect-a-cubes” quite a bit–it’s all good. It’s just that I am not convinced that manipulatives are the holy grail of math ed. Math is all about symbol manipulation. It is inherently abstract. What the symbols represent can be usefully demonstrated, just as what physics formulas represent can be usefully demonstrated; but in both cases, you aren’t doing the main part of the study of math, or physics, unless you’re manipulating symbols, rather than things. Anyway, I am not dogmatic about what is most pedagogically effective. Show me persuasive studies, and I’ll switch. We haven’t tried Crewton Ramone’s method (as much as he recommends), so maybe I will some day and see the light. Two more red flags: Ramone’s FAQ is annoying, and in it he links to a well-known video, entertaining but philosophically bankrupt, touting an educational philosophy very much opposed to my own.

Anyway, thanks for your encouragement re homeschooling. Right now, this morning, I’m letting H. take a break. When he decided at breakfast time that he wanted to build a robot (this will definitely be mostly an imaginary robot), and got down a bag of electronic stuff, I decided to let him do that instead of read in the morning. I’ve shown him enough how to do things that it’s time for him to rediscover it himself, so he can work on that stuff independently. We did do Supermemo first, though. That’s our new first-thing-in-the-morning activity.

I have a question… It has been on my mind since reading about it on your blog.

Why did you start sciences with physics?

I think with James I plan to start science with biology. Albeit I am not set. I was just wondering if you had any reasons for physics foremost.

My current thinking is. Biology can start with self and easy observations. We would probably start with anatomy, body systems, senses etc.
Then move onto broader life and nature sciences, plants, weather, seasons, animals and their classifications and habitats.

I too am not a big fan of already assembled curricula. So I am trying to think ahead and devise my own sequence.

For what it is worth, maybe because I am a nerd, I agree with you so much on your education choices and I look to your updates as inspiration. I too am not a fan of theme based curricula. I would much rather open a book and read and learn about the necessary content.

I belive in having a heavy literary background too. I have been trying the spaced memorization technique as i reread books to James. And some well read tales are really sticking with him I really want him to know his traditional fairy tales, folk tales, myths etc.
James is only 2 and already pulling out his own moral lessons from these stories. He tells me goldilocks is bad for breaking into the bears house. Curious George is a bad monkey for doing things like painting on walls. We read Little Red Riding Hood for the first time and he told me that Red Riding Hood was bad for not minding her mother as she wanders off the path. All these ideas I never once mentioned as we read. :slight_smile:

The only exception to deviating from a heavier book based curricula is with math. Maybe this is because I remember my own math education being very manipulative. In primary school I remember spending a lot of time on the floor with base ten and other manipulatives. Australian schools in the 80s and early 90s did not have textbooks at all until highschool and very few work sheets. I loved math. I flourished and Infact I still enjoy it.
Right now at 2.5, for James math is play. We love the cuisenere rods, and other Montessori manipulatives. We will see where we are in 3 more years though. :slight_smile:

Nerds unite!

I am not sure that my idea is the best way, but I can explain it anyway. The usual way that people think about curricula is that one starts with the easiest-to-understand information, the concrete and here-and-now, and you work your way to more abstract knowledge. This is the thinking behind the usual social studies curricula, in which one begins by studying one’s house and neighborhood, then city and state, then country, then the world–this is repeated in history and geography. It is also reflected in the notion that one starts with “hands on” natural history in one’s back yard, biology generally, then geography and then more abstract sciences like chemistry and physics. This was the science sequence at my high school.

The way I see it, however, when we started reading science more systematically, we had already read hundreds of mostly easy science books spread across all scientific disciplines. We had also done a wide variety of experiments. We definitely were not starting at ground zero. So–why think there was any pedagogical advantage to starting with biology then? Biology would be easier, but it will always be easier at every level of attainment. Besides, while it is certainly challenging, I find it is not that hard to get H. to understand principles like friction, conservation of momentum, and so on. Apart from the calculations, the concepts are easy to demonstrate; in fact, you’re really just giving names to aspects of nature that it’s easy for kids to observe and notice. The required mental discipline simply involves focus on specific features of nature, to the exclusion of others.

This brings us to abstract thinking. The other reason for thinking that kids should start with concrete subjects and rather than something abstract, like physics, is that abstract thinking is supposed to be beyond a five-year-old. Fortunately, I’m a philosopher and like all philosophers I have thought long and hard about what abstraction are. I know that any property can be called an “abstraction”; so our concepts of colors are concepts of abstractions. So even babies are capable of grasping abstractions. But, you might say, they’re not really general, or somehow anyway more difficult sorts of abstractions–like gravity. It’s hard to teach a child things they can’t see or hear or feel. And yet this is nonsense, isn’t it? They get a rough idea of what God is supposed to be, of air that they can’t see or always feel, and indeed of gravity. I remember teaching H. about gravity when he was 2 or 3. I hung something over a table and dropped it, and the thing dropped with a satisfying thunk, and then I said, “That’s gravity! Gravity is what made it go down!” I then repeated the same sort of thing in other circumstances, and pretty soon H. was dropping things and saying, “That’s gravity!” and could answer questions like, “If I threw this ball up into the air, what would happen to it?” and he would say, “It would come down,” and I would ask, “Why?” and he would say, “Because of gravity!” Most of us do not have any more sophisticated idea of what gravity is than this, although we might know more facts about gravity. The abstract nature of the concept, however, obviously does not make it impossibly difficult.

Why do I start with physics? Precisely because I want to start with the most general, fundamental scientific concepts and principles, because this will provide us with the concepts to understand, more deeply, the more derivative concepts of more “concrete” sciences. For example, I’m not sure when we’ll do astronomy, but I suspect we’ll do it after physics and chemistry. Having studied physics and chemistry will enable us to understand better what is meant when a book says that the sun is made of hydrogen and helium, or that nuclear fusion happens there, or what a spectrograph is and how one might learn about elements using one. So it goes like this: for any given science, which uses the fewest concepts of any other? That would be physics, I believe; maybe chemistry. Then, excluding physics and chemistry, which science uses the fewest concepts of any remaining science? Astronomy, I guess. Then earth sciences, then the more general or abstract parts of biology such as molecular and cell biology, and so on.

I don’t claim this is a knock-down argument for this sequence, but the only constraint on the order of the study of the sciences–admittedly a very weak constraint, at this level–that I can see is conceptual dependencies. Physics and chemistry are always going to be challenging, whenever you study them. Putting them off until later won’t make them easier. You might be capable of studying a slightly more difficult version of the “difficult” sciences if you wait a few years, but so what?

All that said, I really don’t think it matters very much what order you study the sciences in. I could change my mind and conclude that it does matter, but I doubt it does.

I think I can agree with that. All sciences are observable.

Physics & cosmology are the ones that really blow my mind at my age.

For example, gravity. Just picturing that gravity is nothing more than a curvature of space itself and yet how certain it is while standing on the face of the Earth - it’s difficult for me to comprehend. And then what about gravitons? I can’t fathom them either. 10 or 11 dimensions, can’t fathom them either. Is magnetism one of those dimensions?

The list goes on and on. I’m no physics guy, but it sure interests me. Sorry for the derail - I guess I see no problem in starting with basic physics since we DO use it everyday from walking, running, swimming, turning on a light, talking, playing music, etc etc. The world around us is simply fascinating

Than you! I love hearing why people do things.

I think my overal pedagogy for science and social studies will be roughly based on the classical education system. I plan to introduce the simple form of all the sciences I can over a period of a few years. Which you have already been doing Daddude. And it is what we are doing now. Right now we like the Usborne Beginners books Then we will revisit them again 3 or so years later and again in depth, and again other 3 or so years beyond that. That way I figure they are building on content and knowldege they have already touched.

I think I am drawn to biology and life science myself. :slight_smile: Astronomy, palaentology eh…
I am the kind of person who wants to learn everything I can about everything. (history, philosophy and psychology major) But for some reason, astronomy and dinosaurs has never interested me much. I know it sways my decision about what I read to James now. He is only 2, we will get to astronomy. But it will be a later one for us, probably.

Oh and I do agree that kids can understand the abstract. They are capable of more than many adults would give them credit for.

We haven’t started in out community for geography yet. Instead I showed my son a map of the world. I showed him where I live and I showed him where gramma lives. Then I told him it was a long way away. And he looked at the world map for a bit then looked through the atlas and had 2 aha! moments. He found the USA and found Australia. He went back to the world map and showed me where gamma lives and said, “gamma with the white hair (we have never once talked about her hair) lives with kangaroos! And JJ lives here on the H.” he pointed to Ohio.

Sure he doesnt really understand it. But he certainly understand that we live in different places far apart.

IMO… (so not worth a whole lot lol )… if you’re passionate about something, your child will pick up on that passion and is much more likely to become passionate about it, too. So if life science really gets you going, it’s more likely to get your child going… and that’s really the most important thing; becoming passionate about learning.

Interesting. I agree that the passion is probably most important. It’s really difficult to get a child enthusiastic to learn something you don’t care for. Another thing I have found is that in teaching sciences, they build on from each other. So if you start with biology it’s pretty easy to slide into some molecular construction and from their into chemistry ( what’s it made of? Why? ) or from biology to seasons to astronomy. That way you as a teacher can use your strengths and passions to teach the topics that you arent so interested in. As a bonus you can show how the world links up.
Also I ( admitting a biology bias up front!) think learning basic concepts of biology early is a good idea as let’s face it that’s what most kids around the world learn first. It would be interesting as a teacher to have a class that knew all about biology except for the one kid who could draw a periodic table from memory and talk about it all. I would feel really bad if I had to fail that kid in biology or even have to give them a B. Of course if you are home schooling long term it isn’t going to matter.
As to the math manipulatives. I will use a manipulative to introduce an idea. Once a kid understands what the point is I switch them to abstract numerals. There is no point in demonstrating everything in concrete form if they just don’t need it. We expect them to read “ball” and know it represents a round bouncy object, why not expect them to know that 10 is a group of … ? I like manipulatives to ensure understanding in the beginning but they can become a crutch. Obviously it can take longer use of manipulatives for toddlers to understand then for a 6 year old. The point is ditch them when you can, as soon as you can for each concept.

DadDude your writings on H’s progress has been inspirational to me also. I’ve been eagerly anticipating teaching my LO the love of learning. So much so I started to watch some programs on Albert Eiensten and Steve Hawkings and their therories. I don’t rememeber much physics from High School. Sadly I’m a few years away from teaching things like science though.

I’m not sure where I stand on manipulatives yet but I do like your point Mandabplus3, it makes sense to me (i also really like the Marshmallow Maths concept of using everyday things to teach maths). I’m a very hands on learner myself (a problem when my homeschool require large amounts of reading) and could only grasp concepts when I understood their real world application. I find this approch to teaching comes naturally to me. That said I also believe I was a bright child, I loved that maths had rules. It seemed very logical to me. I picked up fractions without too much difficulty (apparently a hard concept for children). My mum only had to cut up and apple for me once to show me that 2 halves equals a whole etc. I have seen other kids shown various real world versions of fractions only for it to take them a whole month to grasp the concept. Then again maybe I had seen fractions at work my whole life (having a brother only 2 years younger we were always cutting things in half to share) and I didn’t need much prompting for me to connect the absract with the concrete. Maybe thats the key lots of early exposure to the practical applications to maths.

Well, re the order of studying sciences, what can I say–I’m a contrarian. The fact something “is usually done that way,” at least when it comes to education, holds little water with me. This might make me seem like a crank or otherwise off in certain other communities, so I’m glad that ya’ll at least tolerate me. :slight_smile:

Seems JJ and H are neighbors!

I do like manipulatives to introduce new concepts. Absolutely, we do that. I also think it’s a great way to introduce math in preschool, although I haven’t tried it yet with baby E. (age 20 months).

Of course I do agree it’s great to encourage specific interests, and that kids pick up their parents’ interests. I think H. sees me writing a lot and so that is probably why he writes quite a bit, on his own little Netbook. He also knows I work on software-related stuff so I think that has inspired him to do Scratch. His interest in electricity (which goes way back, to when he was one or two) is his own, though.

daddude,
I have also loved the you have included programming as part of Hs schooling. I had never thought much about it before but I certainly want to introduce something when JJ Is older. :slight_smile:

And yes we do live close. :slight_smile:

I like a confident contrairian :biggrin: not only will I tollerate but encourage you too! lol
Actually I do believe H would have already been exposed to much of what is considered the “normal” science stuff. Through his reading and converstions with you. I would be surprised if he knew less than other kids his age about the beginners science topics!
I read your blog update and loved what you were doing for writing. I think writing is often neglected in education, what you are doing would instill a love for it as well as the nessessary skills. Writing is one of our most common afterschooling activities as its so poorly taught and given such little time. I also think encouraging typing is a great idea. plus Typing is great for Piano :wink: Actually having read as much as I have about H I think he would really love softmozart. If you deside to ramp up the piano definately check it out. Its very much self teaching and addictive!

Thanks for the update. I’m always impressed that you manage to get so much done with H - nthough having two parents around with a toddler probably makes it easier to give H one-on-one attention. My two are both pretty close to your two but the teaching is pretty much all mine. Would love to hear more about what you have been using to teach physics - due to my profession biology comes pretty naturally but I would love to delve into physics and chemistry with my “big” girl more so than we have been doing.

The other thing I would like to know is how you implemented the reading time for him - my DD is coming up to 5 years in September and I would like after that to give her a reading time - she has recently started reading some books independently and also others to her sister, so I feel a rest period for all of us after lunch would suit us well, but how to get her to do it?

Finally wanted to know what you felt about handwriting - do you plan to keep teaching it and improve the neatness or do you think typing will take over for him? Do you think there are reasons he struggles with neat handwriting or is it just an age issue and the fact that he is a boy and also writing so much more than boys of that age usually do write?

Manda, thanks for your support. Thanks also for your advice re Soft Mozart, but isn’t it rather (as in ridiculously) expensive? While we put a lot of money into our homeschooling, I don’t put down significant money for things I’m not convinced work very well. When its author showed up here touting it, I am afraid I was just turned off–but never did try it out or learn enough about the software, and I wound up ignoring the threads that discussed it. What would be the best thread for learning about it? Or maybe you can explain why you’re excited about it, or why it’s better than simply using books and practicing a lot? I haven’t found any general introduction video or even any textual description that summarizes and argues for the method. Self-teaching and addictive are good, though!

Tanikit, we don’t do as much as some others–I am sure not as much as several people here on BrillKids. We just study at almost every meal, and otherwise have many good habits, and it adds up. Sometimes, lately, I’ve felt like a unschooler…and I do think it’s important that kids be interested in and preferably excited about what they are studying. So if he starts getting resistant, just as was the case when he was two, we stop and take a break. We also don’t do everything every day. In fact, the last few months, it’s been a rare day when we did absolutely everything: Latin before breakfast, reading at all three meals, Supermemo review in the morning, geography and chapter book reading in the morning, math and writing (in the afternoon), at least two five-minute piano lessons, another Supermemo review before bedtime, history and chapter books (read by Papa) before bedtime. We always drop a few, and that’s OK. I’m sure H. really would get worn out and rebellious if we tried, so we don’t try.

How did we get into the hour of daily reading (Monday through Friday)? I’ll try to remember. He had been taking a nap, so I offered him the deal: read for an hour (or did we start with 30 or 45 minutes? I forget, maybe), and then you don’t have to take the nap. So he was very enthusiastic about that for a few weeks, until he discovered that sometime, he might not want to take a nap or read. So there was a period, not that long, in which I had to threaten him with the corner if he didn’t read. I made it easier for him by letting him read whatever he wanted, really easy books he has already read, whatever. Also, when he started out, he read out loud, not silently. He read very slowly when he read out loud, and when he chose to read silently, he was much faster. At first I tolerated reading out loud, but once he was “broken in” and accustomed to the habit of reading daily, after a few weeks, I started to insist that he read silently. Anyway, all that was about a year ago. When I tell him it’s time to read, he most often just heads over to his chair and picks a book and is often reading before I set the timer. He often goes over the timer because he’s so interested.

Still, he isn’t that enthusiastic about his hour of reading, I’m afraid. He’s resigned to it, but he sometimes complains. On the other hand, he does read easier stuff, and stuff that he happens to be interested in, on his own. An example would be yesterday, when he started an iPad recorder app, opened up Tales from the Odyssey (which is pretty easy for him, particularly since he’s read it to himself recently, I read it to him a year ago, and we listened to the audiobook twice) and recorded 25 minutes of it before breakfast.

If I thought that, by giving him a stack of library books or newly purchased books, and nothing to do, he would plow through a bunch of books, we’d do that, like, all the time. But I think that couldn’t work with H. Left to himself, he plays with Scratch, Legos if available, often writes, illustrates, or builds (usually involving tape and paper) something related to his latest imaginary project, etc. I’ve left him with nothing to do, even without reading to him at mealtime, for a few days in a row. The result, the two or three times we’ve tried that, has been a disaster. He runs around crazily (literally), has much less discipline than usual, and even if I tell him that he can continue without any school responsibilities only if he does some reading and writing on his own, he doesn’t. So, while other people’s kids might be different, H. really does seem to need a schedule.

“Papa, I’m having some fun. I’m playing chess with Mousie,” he just told me as he came in the room.

Hmmm I understand that. Hellene ( softmozart inventor) can be ’ enthusiastic’ and as English is her second language sometimes her message is lost in the passion. :slight_smile:
I have 3 kids and myself learning to play piano. My girls 6,8 take formal piano lessons at school, with the standard piano books. My oldest is quite good at piano, picks up songs quickly, has good coordinated fingers, can read music fast. She is doing fine and doesn’t need softmozart. Getting her to practice her piano pieces each week is an effort. However she will happily jump on soft Mozart and play pieces both at and above her current level…for ages!
My 6 year old just started lessons this year ( probably done 15x15 mins). She is BORED by it and wants to quit already, hates practice but enjoys her lessons ( they get pulled out of class for them!) I am constantly negotiating to get her to practice AT ALL. However once again she will happily turn on soft Mozart and play both the music theory games and the pieces. She is learning chords and two hands doing different things in soft Mozart and has only just got to a proper music staff in her lessons at school! They are advanced SO much quicker in softmozart.
It is a computer game to learn to play piano.
Different games within it teach different skills, like timing, note pitch, note order.
My 4 year old can play hot cross buns and jingle bells with 2 hands and chords, we don’t practice much so he isn’t exactly the best example but he loves it. He can write down his own scores to keep track of his progress. He can clearly see if he is playing too slow or gets 6 notes wrong. I don’t have to tell him.
Personally, I know I don’t have the patience to learn piano the traditional way. All that time learning basic pieces I don’t recognize until year 4 when I can maybe play some Mozart. Not for me. I practice 3-4 times a week average, I am looking to start on something like Fur Elise next. I started at Christmas!
Yep it can be expensive, but the creator wants to get it out there. She will discount, for any mention anywhere. Facebook, blogg, email friends, brillkids…alll get a reduced rate. If you buy 1 month or 1 year and decide to get more/keep going what you already paid comes off your upgrade price. I paid $100 for a year, I keep a progress diary on the soft Mozart forum of my kids and I. I doubt I will pay much for a perpetual copy. Even if I had to pay full price I would still get it. Full price is still much cheaper than my piano lessons!
Send Helene and email and find a way to get it in your house for H to try.Hre is a link to the free starter kit so you can test it out http://www.pianolearningsoftware.com/Starter-Kits_c_1.html you will need a electric keyboard and a midi cable to connect computer to piano. I am quite sure you will be happy. For the record, it takes a bit to figure out where to start when you first get it. there are no step by step usage instructions. There is a curriculum guide to follow but we go faster than it. But it’s a good place to start. Basically you need to use it to know how and why to use it.