How do you get there?? I am amazed at what I am seeing on this forum and have been following Ella and Cammie’s updates with gusto. I am 3 weeks into LM with my 8.5 month old LO and realise that LM is a 1 year curriculum, but have gleaned from other posts that some babies have started other programmes, such as Jones Geniuses, from as early as 18 months? I would really love for LO to be able to do Anzan when she is older, so my question is how do I help to get her there? (Hopefully I’ll have plenty of time to un-learn my bad maths and learn it too!) :blink:
Well, at 8 months, you have quite a bit of time before Anzan (mental abacus). My parenthesis should imply the answer to your question. If you’re looking to do anzan specifically, it’s going to mean using an abacus when ready… to be ready will typically require the ability to write numbers (but you can work around a lack of ability if necessary), and an awareness of counting up and down, and perhaps some familiarity with the abacus (soroban in particular) but even this isn’t necessary as both Cammie and Ella enrolled in private instruction or class.
If you’re doing LM, then I’d say you’re ahead of the game already.
One Soroban trainer in particular “Soroban” named Tom has talked about the downside of learning math facts before using the soroban (ie, knowing that 3+2 equals 5, and knowing this automatically) as hindering the development of anzan. The reason is that it’s easy to rely on math facts when you know them… working anzan (visualizing the abacus) takes work and more time to start off
My example of 3+2 is probably not the best example, LOL… this is a math fact that will have to be mastered while learning soroban anyway! So maybe substitute 7+2 equals 9, or 11-5 equals 6 or something like that.
Thanks PokerDad. Yes at just 8 months LO has some way to go yet 
, but just conscious of getting her into good practices to facilitate using the soroban. Do you think that maybe alongside LM I can gently introduce her to the soroban by just counting up and down the beads with her?
What comes after LM? Which other maths programmes will pave the way for (or not hinder) soroban use and Anzan? I’m keen to buy TW too in the hope it will help with LO’s visualisation skills.
Just read nadia0801 post on rapidly flashing soroban quantities… once we have gone through 1-100 in LM do you think I could work through 1-100 again whilst flashing the corresponding soroban quantities? My thinking is the earlier she is exposed to it the less confusing it will be for her? I have stumbled upon Chris01’s ppt soroban files (thank you!), but think I may buy her her own soroban and take pictures from her own one to make it more engaging…
How much daily practice is required to develop advanced Anzan skills?
I suspect that the development of advanced Anzan skills requires some critical amount of training per day. If you don’t practice enough the skill will not be developed and that training beyond the critical level each day probably yields little additional benefit.
It would be useful to know what the optimal amount of daily practice is for various age groups. The daily practice triggers some plastic changes in the brain provided the amount of practice exceeds a critical threshold.
Have you considered showing your little one the abacus flashcards? Introducing these cards now might reduce the amount of daily practice required later, once an actual abacus is introduced. You could teach the representations of 1-100, along with addition and subtraction with abacus cards.
http://www.monkeymagic.net/2011/08/24/decision-fatigue/
Chris.
Hi Tombliboo! It’s encouraging to see more people taking interest in Soroban/Anzan. It is so unheard-of here in my country that the first thing that comes to people’s mind when they hear abacus is the colorful “toy” they can buy at the store. Imagine our friends’ expression when I tell them Cammie is studying how to use the abacus. 
I agree that practice is the best way to learn anzan. Getting to that stage is almost dependent on how much you practice. This is not per our experience but as to what experts refer to as “mechanization”. I’ll quote the book I’ve read “The idea is to minimize mental work as much as possible and to perform the physical task of manipulating the beads mechanically, without thought or hesitation. In a sense to develop a process of thoughtlessness.”
We practice a total of around 30-minutes a day. This includes flashing soroban quantities, practicing addition and subtraction, writing numbers, matching games, etc. I would like to squeeze-in more practice but since I am busy with my new baby and the house chores, that’s all the time we have. :mellow:
I think the flashcard idea is awesome, BUT, at 8 months old, I don’t see the point. The abacus is fantastic at helping you see numbers in a way that makes sense. The problem is, you need some number awareness to begin with. If it were me (and I’m maybe a year behind you in this process), I would begin with counting things everywhere, and playing with numbers in general. I would build basic arithmetic awareness especially of the five bond (there was a video that I posted in a few of the abacus threads earlier that does a good job of showing this)… when my child is ready (can speak, can grasp the whole thing), then I’d start counting with the abacus and doing flashcards and then taking lessons.
But at this age, I’m probably just doing number awareness, and I personally don’t think the soroban would be the best way to build number awareness (strictly because the heavenly bead represents 5)
Perhaps I’m wrong here?
@nadia0801
Well my interest was piqued by watching Cammie swiping imaginary beads in the air- I’d never seen anything like it! Definitely not the abacus I had in mind!
If mechanisation is key, hopefully starting early with LO will help make it second nature. What course of learning do you think my LO should undertake given she is 8.5 months old and has just started LM? Are there any other programmes you would recommend in addition to LM and flashing soroban quantities? It seems like a very good grasp of counting up and down/addition/subtraction will be needed in order to manipulate the beads initially. Could you tell me (v briefly!) what you did with Cammie from babyhood to get her to where she is now? Or anything you would have done differently with the benefit of hindsight? Sorry for the barrage of questions!
@PokerDad
Yes LO is too young to understand that the heaven bead represents 5, but as the soroban quantities are representations of quantity, if I flash these alongside LM quantity slides will she not learn these are another way of ‘spelling’ the quantities just as numerals are? Maybe she may start to deduce that the heaven bead is 5 in the same way babies deduce the rules of grammar? Or maybe it will confuse the hell out of her?!
I do understand that numbers awareness is crucial. Is there more of a structured way I can teach this after LM? LO will be around 18 months when we finish a year of LM.
could very well be… no doubt that with plasticity, they can pick up a load of inferences that us adults would never think of
I understand pokerdads concern about getting to number awareness as being important. It certainly is and I think you have that covered with LM. You baby will get numbers from the LM icons. I see no reason not to flash the abacus cards also. You are quite right it is just another representation of the same number. Just like 4 is … And quatro and ne and ||| and… You get the idea.
" We" often teach our children that this is the letter A before we teach them the sound “a” and they eventually learn to read reguadless. Although the other way around makes it quicker.
I would be cautious to ensure that your LM lessons stay ahead of the abacus cards you flash but other than that I can’t see any harm in it. It’s just one more language your child will learn and link to knowledge they already have.
Using the abacus in rightstart math may allow you to start your child on it sooner if you are in a hurry, but you are still a way off so do some research
Thanks Mandabplus3. How long a lag do you think I should keep behind my LM quantities? Maybe we should work through 1-100 first and then introduce the abacus? Or do you think seeing them earlier will be less confusing for such a young baby? I was thinking of flashing the quantity and then flashing the abacus so she has a solid grip of the quantities behind the abacus representation- will I be able to do this within LM or is this a powerpoint job?
Thanks for your useful suggestions PokerDad. Tried looking for the video you mention but have had no luck- do you mind directing me to it please? Thanks
Also, with regards to learning maths facts as hindering soroban use, would then the use of a standard (Slavonic) 100 bead abacus (with the first five beads of the row in one colour and the second set of 5 in another colour to allow ease of counting) to teach number awareness not be a good idea? The child would automatically start learning the maths different facts to make 5 and 10?
Oh by lag I meant just show the dots on LM before you show the abacus picture. There is no reason I can think of not to do both of them together.
For little babies we often show pictures and words that they know nothing about, we give them the info now and later their plastic brains link it to what they have learnt since. Thinking it through now I can’t see why you shouldn’t flash the abacus pictures however you like. PROVIDED that at some point before you embark on an abacus program you ensure your child understands that three items is three. So it is a concrete fact rather than an abstract idea. Actually using the abacus will teach them this anyway but best to save potential problems. If you stick with LM it will teach that and more. I have been quite surprised at the number confidence LM can create…considering it’s just a bunch of fancy dots
Now I think it would be easier to create the slides in LR than LM as you can import a photo of the abacus and then a number representation in objects or numerals ( or both) on the next slide but I am no expert at this.
Rightstart math have the colored abacus in groups of 5. But I can’t advise you more than that.
Researchers have concluded that babies are born with rudimentary mathematical abilities. Babies are born with the ability to tell instantly whether there are one, two or three objects before them, but this ability to subitize does not extend beyond four objects. Beyond four objects, babies and adults group the objects into smaller groups and add these groups or recognise these patterns. For example, eight is seen as two groups of four or two groups of three and a group of two.
‘Rain Man’, Kim Peek, was not able to subitize beyond four and there are no examples of savants with this ability. Babies can distinguish between quantities provided the ratio is not close to 1:1. Honing this skill might develop number sense.
Accepting the research findings simplifies the process of teaching GD math because the objectives change. The available evidence suggests that honing estimation skills develops number sense and we should just focus on teaching what numerals represent and comparing quantities.
Ten Frames are a better tool to teach number bonds, addition and subtraction.
Images-
http://www.psteacherresources.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_28&products_id=45
These frames could be used to explain the heavenly 5 bead on the abacus if you use checker counters along with blank Ten Frame templates.
Place a blank template, orientated horizontally, on a table next to an image of an abacus without beads. Place counters on the Ten Frame and then transfer to the abacus image. Build a tower of five whenever the top row of the Ten Frame is full.
Regarding the amount of daily practice required to master Anzan skills, multiplication and division on the soroban requires complete mastery of the multiplication tables. In addition, the acquisition of anzan skills requires considerable daily practice over a period of several years. I suspect that similar results could be achieved without the abacus.
We need to know what the optimal amount of daily practice is for various age groups. The daily soroban practice triggers some plastic changes in the brain provided the amount of practice exceeds a critical threshold.
So, what is achieved if this threshold is not met on a daily basis, other than becoming proficient on the soroban? The aim with the soroban is to develop a process of thoughtlessness and so consequently the time practicing is honing a skill and not developing number sense. Number sense is, however, developed in the initial phase of learning.
If a child masters their multiplication tables so that the can recall them without hesitation and practices mental math for 30 minutes daily, they would develop an impressive skill. If however, the practice required to master anzan was an hour daily, the same child would not have developed mental calculating skills.
Most children would resist excessive amounts of daily practice. Parents need to know how much practise they are committing their child to.
Something to think about
Chris
Hi Guys,
Interesting thread you guys having going here, thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
So I know Pokerdad was talking about not memorizing math facts from a previous statement I made, and I think he really understands what I meant. The goal is to develop deep, powerful neural pathways for anzan by practicing Soroban. When you use memorization, it actually uses a different path, so it can weaken the anzan skills (similar to the way an unused muscle will atrophy).
I think what Nadia meant with mechanization is just the next step in the learning process I was talking about. Think about the lack of conscious thought you have when you get up and get a cup of water to drink. You don’t have to think about moving your muscles to stand up, walk, grab a cup, turn the nozzle, balance the cup as water fills it, and on and on. The reason it’s all so fluid and easy is because you’ve done it so often. But a baby learning to take his first step will struggle just to keep his balance as he stands. In anzan you really do start in the same way, first you have to really try just to stand but with practice it become automatic or “mechanized”
Finally as for the amount of time to spend practicing … it’s a really tough question to answer. The best answer I can give you is: generally more practice leads to better results.
I know Chris was mentioning that there’s some level of optimal practice, and theoretically there probably is. But it’s not determined by age group. I’ve seen kids who (in the beginning) can’t practice for more than 45 seconds at a time, while other kids can practice 6+ hours a day when she’s 3 years old. I know 6 hours seems like it would drive you crazy, but think about how much time your child might spend playing sports or a video game. If he or she can enjoy the activity 6 hours will really fly by.
What I can tell you is that most kids will go through some phases as they learn. First they will probably be excited as they learn new skills very rapidly and everything seems fun. Then they’ll likely hit some challenges that take more time to overcome. It might be multiplication, or division, or sometimes just more challenging addition. If you as the parent stay firm, knowing that it’s just the first of many challenges your child will face in their life times, they will get over the hump. Afterwards, your child will probably enjoy a stretch of time where everything feels fun and exciting again, which will inevitably be followed by another challenge that will take time to overcome. This crest and trough of learning will continue forever.
Hope this helps,
Tom
Hi Tom,
What is your estimate for the minimum about of daily practice required to develop anzan skills and can adults develop this ability?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygjSioDQZOs&feature=related
Chris.
I have read from Cherlyn’s blog that she studied abacus for just ONE year (May 2009 - May 2010) when she reached Dan Level-6, which is one of the highest level for CMA Mental Arithmetic (her soroban school). As far as I gathered, she usually studies on her own initiative but her parents helps her for two hours a day in her coursework.
Cherlyn was 4-years 11-months old when she first enrolled. In the video, she’s 5-years and 11-months old. So I guess for this age-group, two hours a day of practice is more than a safe bet. But we have to consider that Cherlyn has a very strong initiative to learn. I believe that and her parent’s dedication are what made her achieve this extraordinary feat.
I am so impressed by that little girl. I’ve never seen anything like that before. Thanks for sharing the video, Chris1.
Nadia0801, you mentioned that the girl’s parents have a blog. Could you kindly paste the link? Thank you.
And Chris1 asked an important question: can adults do this too? Any answers?
Here’s Cherlyn’s blog link.
http://cherlynleezhiying.blogspot.com
As for adults learning anzan, I believe it is possible though it is much more difficult as we have to unlearn many things. A couple of teachers in my LO’s school have achieved anzan without early learning. That is, of course, not without rigorous practice.
Thank you so much, nadia0801.