“It is vital for toddlers and preschoolers to move through different stages of pencil grasp development in order to develop good fine motor skills. Please, do NOT force your toddler to hold the pencil the way a school child does, with 3 fingers on the pencil – you will do more harm than good. It is very hard to “unlearn†a poor pencil grip later in life!”
Another point showing that “each child is different” - I taught my toddler the correct tripod grip from the moment we introduced writing/colouring tools. He seemed to pick it up well and still uses it correctly - every time. Now at almost five, he has great penmanship. I’m not sure about the term “vital”.
I was the same. My son has always had good fine motor skills and I never let him hold a pen or crayon incorrectly. He is 3 now and 90% of the time uses a perfect grip, occasionally needing a reminder when he experiments with other grips.
I haven’t clicked the links yet, but I keep a box of writing instruments specifically for my just-turned-3 year old. It is full of half size colored pencils, triangle crayons, and half size pip squeak markers. He’s not allowed to use big sisters markers/pencils/crayons and vice versa. I only give him ones that are thin (easier to grasp properly) and half size in length (which forces them to hold it lower where they are supposed to). I like the little pipsqeak markers because when kids make a mark on the paper with marker there is a lot of “immediate gratification” to it on account of the bold colors, versus the very light stroke of a colored pencil, although he does use both. I picked up a 4 pack of the mini pipsqueaks from the dollar spot at Target if anyone is looking where to find them. I found them more difficult to source then the thick pipsqueak markers which I saw at every store, but then again, I didn’t look for them online.
It looks like DS is going to be a lefty although technically it’s too soon to tell as they can supposedly switch all the way up to kindergarten. That said, he is LH’d at the moment and I think I am going to order some of these just to be sure his grip is correct (although it looks pretty good to me, I’m not a lefty.) https://www.leftyslefthanded.com/Left_Handed_Pencil_Grips_Choice_of_Three_or_Six_p/604932.htm?1=1&CartID=0
Yeah sorry I don’t agree. Encourage them every time they pick up a pencil to hold it correctly. I don’t force them to continue with the grip for general drawing and colouring but I do for handwriting and tracing tasks. I gently move fingers around and remind regularly. They pick it up in no time. Usually at or before age 3 if given consistency. It’s worked for every kid I have taught. Some kids take longer to develop the strength in their fingers to continue using the correct grip for an entire task. Play dough, Lego, threading, piano and guitar are great for finger strength development.
I just can’t see why you wouldn’t correct an incorrect grip! It’s like not correcting writing letters the wrong way, it will take longer to fix later than it will at the start.
I’m far from an expert here, but thought I’d chime in anyway… I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. lol
I have a personal theory that involves the zone of proximal development and neural habit formation. The Zone of proximal development is from Vygotsky. The neural habit formation isn’t something that any developmental psych or teacher I’m aware of has ever expressed, but it’s been my own idea after learning so much about how we as people work - the theory was developed back in my swimming days as I was contemplating how to get myself to become better (because I found the current logic sorely lacking)… anyway, long story short…
it’s really simple. Every action is effectively the result of neural activity; Technically every thought as well (which also has a place but not in this thread maybe). Habits are unconscious and very natural to develop. Breaking a bad habit takes a lot of thought, especially physical action habits like how to throw a ball, or catch in the upper section of a swim stroke - both of these I’ve changed deep into my development. My wife used to have a horrendous pencil grip (because no one ever taught her how) and was able to change it when she became a teacher (so that she didn’t set a poor example). Even though it’s possible to correct a biomechanical error, it’s not desirable to have to.
With that said, neural habit dictates that with each repetition, the neural pathways producing said action get reinforced through myelination and in a classical conditioning sense. The neurons associate and make it easier and easier and habitual to fire together. This is what creates muscle memory.
So why would you ever want to perform an action with suboptimal technique? This was my entire training mentality towards the end of my swimming career.
Where Vygotsky comes in is that if you’re unable to do it correctly, provide enough instruction, assistance, etc for it to happen.
With PokerCub, I’m now teaching him how to feed small items to himself. Everyone in the family told me not to try and that it’s stupid to even think a six month old could remotely be able to take something the size of a cheerio and feed it to himself.
Guess what?.. he can do it, right now! and it was a piece of cake to teach him (he had the desire to get the food into his mouth… so he was very motivated).
I see no reason why gripping a pencil wouldn’t work the same way ASIDE from potential sizing issues (fingers too small relative to pencil size) - solution is to adjust the pencil diamter as needed if this is the case, but I doubt it’s a real hindrance.
My biggest complaint from Kindergarten was “why do you make me use these fat lousy crayons. get some real ones please!” LOL… I still remember that
I am with most of you on this one.
I never really spent time teaching James proper grip. I think he learnt from watching me a lot. I gave him a quick lesson one day when he was under 2 years old about “pinchy fingers and support” for holding a crayon. From that day on, all I had to say was “pinchy fingers” and he automatically adjusted his grip.
We do a lot of drawing where I have James copy what I draw. I honestly never intended to teach proper grip. He just took to it well.
Now my only concern is about his dominance. And I have no idea if I should encourage one or the other. Manda? Any thoughts.
James does everything I have tested him for as a lefty. He steps first with his left, looks through a tube with his left eye, he throws and eats with his left hand, he even cuts with scissors in his left hand. Oh and he always uses his left hand when playing the ipad. Every lefty I know swears he will be a lefty. However he writes with both hands. He may be slightly more precise with his left hand, but the difference is minimal. He just turned 3 and right now we are just letting it play out because I know true dexterity doesn’t present until 4-6. But i wonder if it is only because that is when most kids learn real handwriting.
Pokerdad, I gave my children peas ( usually still frozen) at 6-8 months old. I sat them at the table to get them out from under my feet ( the bad side to early crawlers!) while I cooked. Catching and eating the peas kept them all entertained for more than 10 minutes. We also used corn,cut sausage, cut cheese, Cheerios, and nutrigrain when I was desperate lol
Korrale4Kq :biggrin: I have no expertise on left handedness but I always give the kids their own choice. I often put forks at the top of their plate rather than to one side so they can choose which hand to use. In my class of 38 I have 2.5 left handers at the moment. One is only just 4 and definitely left. He won’t change and I doubt your boy will. One is mostly left and the other is basically all left. I would encourage use of both hands just to ensure he has a cool multi handed skill for life :laugh: if my left handers are writing I always let them choose which hand to write with but if we are threading or using play dough I encourage them to use both hands.
Being lefty isn’t as big a deal these days as it used to be. It’s really not a concern at all.
There is more than this single quote on this website
My first kid had a correct pencil grasp when she first time got the pencil, and that was at 10 months. I knew the importance of fine motor skill development and I did a lot for it. I always kept her fingers busy, almost since her birth. She also did not draw on walls therefore she had instant access to pencils and paper since that time, and she mastered a lot. Now (5.5) she is drawing very well and she likes to do that.
My second child is very different. He had the same possibilities for fine motor skill development but he is a very active boy and he is more interested in running and jumping. He does not like paperwork at all. He likes to play alone, with his imagination games. He does something very different with all the toys. So I concentrated mostly on visual and audial teaching. He also was born with slight dysthonia of hands. Now I try to correct my mistakes. He is nearly 3 years old, he has palmar grasp and since yesterday he refused to use scissors
It seems that all your children were ready to perfect grasp early, and it was OK to help them. My son is a bit delayed in his grasp, and teachers and grandmother start to do too much pressure. They try to teach him a correct grasp for him and he is resisting. All the efforts go to deeper resistance.
Happily I found this website. We started with recommendation: “Cut narrow (1.5cm) strips of coloured paper for your child to snip across the width. This is easy to do, as the scissors only need to open and close once to be successful.”. And we succeeded. Yesterday he cut, cut and cut for almost an hour (as he is very persistent). He chopped all the paper we provided. Now I know that he is able to one-opening scissor activity only, and I know how to promote the next step.
Thank you, OT Mom
==== OT Mom (she is occupational therapist and homeschooling mom) writes:
My older son went to the local nursery school a couple of days a week from the ages of 2 - 5 years. Although he had some gross motor and coordination delays along with his sensory processing disorder, his pencil grasp was developing quite adequately through the various stages.
Alas, one week when he was 3 years old, unbeknownst to me, a replacement teacher unfamiliar with that age group forced him to try and hold the pencil “properlyâ€. The result? An extremely awkward and inefficient pencil grasp, and a child who promptly gave up drawing and coloring as soon as any effort was made to persuade him to hold the pencil more appropriately.
I was so frustrated! It took months of patient coaxing to get him to engage in fine motor tasks with me, and the best ones were the ones that had no crayons in sight
Cutting: We did the strips, too I put little car stickers (or fish or construction vehicles or dogs, etc) on the strips and he had to cut between them. Then we graduated to actual lines between the stickers that I wanted him to cut directly on. As an extension to that activity, we then sorted the stickers and glued them onto a T-Chart so he felt like there was a purpose to snipping these little strips.
Pencil Grip: You obviously have a different situation with your son than I did with mine. I’m glad to hear that you are making progress, too. One thing that I did was introduce the “Finger Fairy”. That was basically me picking a time when I saw him with correct grip and fluttering my fingers like a fairy down to greet him with his paper. I’d make my fingers “talk” and say how proud she was of his little boy fingers and that the next time she was in town and saw him with good grip, she’d bring him a treat (a chocolate chip or a smartie - something small). Then I’d wait no longer than a day and bring him his treat. Funny that that motivated him. He’d often ask me if I had seen the Finger Fairy because he was going to be colouring soon. She only came a few times each week…somehow she faded out…haven’t seen her in years
Kizudo, good idea on the stickers! I will try that today. Some experts might disagree bc of choking, but I let my
Kids open pistachio nuts under supervision. It’s an excellent self motivated fine motor activity that that they love.
James did many fine motor tasks at a much earlier age than recommended.
We also gave him Cheerios to eat when he was 6 months old. Food is a huge motivator for my little boy.
When James was a few months older I made a slit in a plastic cottage cheese or yogurt container and had him put poker chips in the slot. I had him put spaghetti into a cheese shaker. I I had him pick up little Pom poms then eventually pony beads and put them into bottle. I also had him thread rigatoni onto pipe cleaners. Eventually he was putting coins into a pity bank daily.
I did all those above things mentioned, and more, before he was ever given a pencil, crayon, felt pen to write with.
O la la, that is Charlotte Mason word for word, PokerDad.
In volume 1, pages 159 - 160, is a subtitle called VI. The Habit of Perfect Execution.
I quote her original words:
``The Habit of turning out Imperfect Work.––
‘Throw perfection into all you do’ is a counsel upon which a family may be brought up with great advantage. We English, as a nation, think too much of persons, and too little of things, work, execution. Our children are allowed to make their figures or their letters, their stitches, their dolls’ clothes, their small carpentry, anyhow, with the notion that they will do better by-and-by. Other nations––the Germans and the French, for instance––look at the question philosophically, and know that if children get the habit of turning out imperfect work, the men and women will undoubtedly keep that habit up. I remember being delighted with the work of a class of about forty children, of six and seven, in an elementary school at Heidelberg. They were doing a writing lesson, accompanied by a good deal of oral teaching from a master, who wrote each word on the blackboard. By-and-by the slates were shown, and I did not observe one faulty or irregular letter on the whole forty slates. The same principle of ‘perfection’ was to be discerned in a recent exhibition of school-work held throughout France. No faulty work was shown, to be excused on the plea that it was the work of children.
A Child should Execute Perfectly -
No work should be given to a child that he cannot execute perfectly, and then perfection should be required from him as a matter of course. For instance, he is set to do a copy of strokes, and is allowed to show a slateful at all sorts of slopes and all sorts of intervals; his moral sense is vitiated, his eye is injured. Set him six strokes to copy; let him, not bring a slateful, but six perfect strokes, at regular distances and at regular slopes. If he produces a faulty pair, get him to point out the fault, and persevere until he has produced his task; if he does not do it to-day, let him go on to-morrow and the next day, and when the six perfect strokes appear, let it be an occasion of triumph. So with the little tasks of painting, drawing, or construction he sets himself––let everything he does be well done. An unsteady house of cards is a thing to be ashamed of. Closely connected with this habit of ‘perfect work’ is that of finishing whatever is taken in hand. The child should rarely be allowed to set his hand to a new undertaking until the last is finished.‘’ QUOTE ENDS.
And here is how the modern English Paraphrase renders those same pages 159-160 -`VI. The Habit of Perfect Work
``The Habit of Turning in Imperfect Work -
‘Do it right the first time’ is good advice for bringing up any family. England, as a nation, tends to think too much about the individual and not enough about things and work and performance. Children are allowed to write or sew stitches or assemble doll clothes or make small carpentry projects any old way, with the idea that they’ll do better later. Other countries, like France and Germany, take a philosophical perspective. They know that if children get into the habit of turning out careless work, then they’ll grow into men and women who don’t think it’s important to do their best. I was impressed with children’s work from a class of about forty students, aged six and seven, in an elementary school in Heidelberg. They were doing a writing lesson and the teacher was doing a lot of talking as he wrote each word on the blackboard. When their slates were shown, I didn’t see even one defective or irregular letter on any of the forty slates! I saw the same principle of perfection in France at a display of children’s schoolwork. No imperfect composition was displayed and justified because it was ‘only the work of children.’
A Child Should Execute Perfectly -
A child should not be assigned work that he isn’t capable of doing perfectly, and perfect work should be expected as a matter of course. For example, if he is supposed to write a series of strokes and is allowed to turn in a page of sloppy stroke-marks unevenly spaced and sloping irregularly, then his moral integrity is compromised from getting by on less than his best. Instead, just assign him six strokes to copy instead of a full page. Require that they be six perfect strokes, evenly spaced and with uniform slant. If one isn’t right, have him show you what’s wrong with it and let him re-do it. If he can’t do six perfect ones today, let him try again tomorrow, and again the next day. When he finally writes six perfect strokes, celebrate the occasion! Let him feel a sense of triumph. The same with other little tasks that he wants to do–painting, drawing, making things. Let everything that he does be done well. If he builds a house of cards, he should be ashamed if it’s rickety and uneven. Along the same lines, he should finish whatever he begins. He should rarely be allowed to start on a new project until the last one is finished.‘’ QUOTE ENDS.
PokerDad, you also said something about habit formation and neural pathways being formed due to doing certain things habitually. Charlotte Mason discussed that too - infact, almost using your exact same words. I quote pages 112- 115 of CM Volume 1(the modern English Paraphrase by Leslie Laurio on Amblesideonline.org). It says:
`` VI. The Physiological Aspect Of Habit -
The book Mental Physiology by Dr. Carpenter gave me the first clue I was looking for. It’s a very interesting book. He explains the analogy between thinking and physical action and shows how the one’s effect is a result of the other’s cause.
Growing Tissues Mold Themselves to the Way They are Used-
Dr. Carpenter is part of the school that believes that human tissue is constantly wearing out and repairing itself by building new tissue. Even physical functions that we take for granted, like walking and standing up straight, are really the result of meticulous training. The things we learn, such as writing or dancing, are also learned with effort, but they become so automatic that we can do them naturally and easily. Why? Because the law of living, growing tissue is that it grows to accommodate whatever action is required of it. When the brain is constantly cuing the muscles to do a specific action, that action will become so automatic in the muscles that even a slight cue from outside will prompt them to respond without the brain having to consciously intervene. A child’s joints and muscles grow to accommodate holding and using a pencil. It isn’t that the child concentrates and wills with his mind to make the hand write with a pencil in spite of his muscles. It’s his newly grown muscles that form themselves to adapt to operating a pencil. And, in this same way, people can be trained to do all kinds of feats and tricks that look impossible to everyone else. Those things are impossible to everyone else, because their muscles haven’t been trained to do those amazing things with early training.
Therefore Children Should Learn Athletics at an Early Age -
So, no activity is merely physical. The brain is affected, too. And this is why children should learn dancing, horseback riding, swimming, gymnastics, every kind of activity that trains the muscles when they’re young. Muscles and joints don’t just grow new tissue in places that accommodate new activity. They grow in new patterns. The body is much more efficient at growing and adapting when it’s young. A man whose muscles are used to sports can learn any new sport fairly easily. But it’s very difficult for a farmer who has done mostly plowing to learn to write. His muscles, which are adapted to his work, have a difficult time growing to accommodate an unrelated task. This is why it’s so important to be diligent about children’s habits in speaking clearly, standing up straight, etc. Children’s muscles are forming themselves to accommodate their habits every hour. Shuffling, hunching the shoulders, mumbling are not just quirks to be outgrown when the child is ready. Every day that he continues these habits, they are becoming part of him, making their mark in the very physical substance of his spinal cord. His mind has already pre-set its instructions to the muscles, and reversing it means re-growing all those muscles to a new pattern. For example, correcting a bad habit of speech will no longer be a matter of trying to speak plainly. The child’s muscles are grown to do something else and it will take some effort to get them to do what they aren’t developed to do. It won’t feel natural until some new muscles have grown to a new pattern in his speaking muscles as he uses them properly.
Moral and Mental Habits Make Their Mark upon Physical Tissues -
Everyone knows that the body will grow to accommodate whatever we make it do. A child who habitually stands on one foot will be prone to having a curved spine. A child who lets his shoulders droop instead of letting his chest expand to breathe deeply will be more susceptible to lung disease. We see evidence of bad habits affecting the body so often that we can’t deny the cause and effect relationship. But we don’t realize that the habits we can’t see, like being flippant, or truthful, or neat, make a physical mark just as much. They influence the way tissue develops in the brain. Habits of mind become physical reality on brain tissue and that’s why habit is so powerful. It isn’t all in the mind, it’s physical, too. The brain is a delicate organ, so it shouldn’t be any surprise that what we think leaves its mark in a physical way. Every thought or line of reasoning we entertain a lot makes a well-worn rut in our brain. These ruts make tracks for the train of our lives to glide along, and our trains can only get out of these tracks with extreme effort of our will.
Persistent Trains of Thought -
That’s why a housewife, when she has a few minutes to let her mind wander, tends to think about household matters. She thinks about the day’s dinner, or winter clothes. Her thoughts naturally run into the rut she has worn for them by constant repetition of the same thoughts. Mothers tend to think about their children, painters think about pictures, poets think about poems, fathers fret about finances until stressful circumstances drive his anxieties deeper and deeper into those ruts and he goes crazy with being unable to get his mind off his worries. In fact, all of us are susceptible to driving ourselves crazy by continuing to dwell on one thought and wearing out the rut. Any line of thought that takes control of the mind will endanger a person’s sanity–pride, resentment, jealousy, something created with much effort, an opinion thought up.‘’ QUOTE ENDS.
In fact, volume 1 of the CM series has 2 entire chapters devoted to habit formation, and how we can instill correct habits in children.
Thank you, Kizudo!
I am not creative enough to create a fairy but we definitely will do the sticking and gluing of what we will cut. Today!
Yesterday I bought a lot of clothes pegs. Both kids now are busy working with them (with some fighting elements). I recommend! Cheep Lego and tanagram, two in one!
Nee I love your derailing I found it most interesting. I agree too. I am struggling to master a couple of moves in Taekwondo and thinking through it they are moves that are nothing like the moves I learnt as a child doing dance and physical culture. I figure it means I will have to just try harder and practice more. :yes: but its good to know the skills I teach my kids now offer some life long benefits in terms of options.
I also want to point out that when I correct pencil grip, I only do it for “proper writing” activities. I don’t correct for drawing, painting, crayons, colouring ect. I think it is important for children to explore other mark marking methods and yes these activities do develop other muscles ( shoulders, arms, wrist, hand, fingers)
Its worth mentioning that children with chubby fingers often take longer to develop correct pencil grip.
I just think the article didn’t have a high enough expectation on children’s capabilities overall. Oh the story of all Education without EL lol lol
Thanks Frukc for starting this thread & the links. I think my little boy has quite a good grip for his age… I remember being quite surprised when I noticed it & thinking that I had never taught him that. He does have little fingers though & he’s nearly only ever had thin pencils & crayons. He’s never held a crayon in his fist.
It’s something of a mantra that runs through my head though “must have good pencil grip” in order to amount to anything in life… lol must be left over from my primary school years…
I did a similar thing as Korraleq4, with a large plastic tub with little holes in the top that straws had to be fed into. And dropping buttons into a container, using alternate hands. Maybe that helped.
I need to find some kid friendly scissors to get him started with cutting though, he would love that.
For beginners cutting I recommend play dough scissors as the first step. They are blunt and kids love cutting playdough.
Next step after that is cutting assist scissors that open automatically ( sort of spring loaded ) so they only need to learn to squeeze to cut. Gradual step by step.
The first cutting should be able to be completed in only one snip. So one inch think strips to cut into squares.
