"Mindset" is a fabulous book! But it's hard to live

Early Learning Early Learning General Discussions
1

This is a spinoff from the “Can genius be learned?” thread. There were a number of books recommended in that thread, and I got a bunch of them from the library. “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success” by Carol S. Dweck is the first one I’ve read, and it is AMAZING.

I mostly started this thread to encourage everyone to find a copy of this book at your library or wherever and read it. I’m making my husband, my mom, and my siblings all read it, and I think it will be my new favorite thing to recommend to other parents.

Basically, the book says there are two mindsets. The fixed mindset says that your ability (intellectual, artistic, sportive, etc) is innate and can’t be changed. As a result, people with a fixed mindset have to be able to do things easily and well at first or they won’t do them; if it takes effort, it proves they’re not “smart” or good at that. The growth mindset says that ability is changed by effort, and the more effort you put in, the better you are at something. Growth mindset people (even kids) look for challenges and don’t mind failure, seeing it as an opportunity to learn.

I love the idea. I grew up with a very firm fixed mindset; my parents saw that it was detrimental, but couldn’t figure out how to help me change. I’ve gotten a little better as an adult, but not much. I don’t want my daughter to have the same problem! And the book talks a LOT about how we as parents can affect our children’s mindsets.

The problem is, it’s HARD. Has anyone else tried to use growth-minded praise and other responses to toddlers? How have you changed the habits of praising accomplishment and dealing with failure? It’s been quite a challenge for me this week.

2

WolfWind-
I know exactly what you mean about implementing! I actually had thought I was pretty good about not giving mindless praise until I read the book and actively started monitoring myself and those around me…
I finally made myself two huge posters with ideas, I.e. Reminders for me. That seems to have done the trick, as well as give hubby the CliffNotes version as he does not have the time nor inclination to actually read the book. He does agree wholeheartedly with the premise and the implications, so this was a great solution for us.
A funny side note- Alex reads everything she sees, so after about a week of this we noticed that she was ‘praising’ us with blurbs from my cheat sheets. lol
When I burned dinner one night, she looked right at the chart and said, “it’s perfectly okay to make a mistake mommy, what did you learn from it?!”
After a fit of laughter, I sobered up and thought about the implications of that…if she picked that up after a week, imagine what lessons she would get from a lifetime of random, mindless praise with unintended messages?

3

Yes, fabulous and difficult! I had read this idea before (different book) but I had reverted in many ways! :confused: I read “Mindset” after following the other thread too. Hopefully I am back on track.

@Kerileanne99 Would you mind sharing the rest of your reminders from your charts? I may need to replicate them. :wink:
I am sure my family will love to make fun…

Thanks!

4

Oh dear another roller coaster for my parenting! lol I have almost finished Bounce so this one will be next on the list. I have been trying the praise effort trick, I find it easier to do with younger children than my older ones. A little kid is putting in effort with most things they do, my older ones are coasting along in a lot of areas >:( makes it harder to catch a good praise moment.

5

Wolfwind ,
you should read also these

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/
http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm
http://www.janetlansbury.com/2010/03/praising-children-risking-failure/
http://forum.brillkids.com/coffee-corner/brilliant-kids-lack-confidence-the-perils-of-praise/

two years ago, it was a revolution in our family.

but it is not hard, to praise for effort. just start :slight_smile:

6

I have read too many books on this topic and it’s given me a clear view of the damaging effects of a ‘fixed mindset’.

For example, Karen Quinn, the Testing Mom (www.testingmom.com), says in her book ‘Testing for kindergarten’, that when her son was 3 years old, he was diagnosed as being developmentally delayed. The doctor diagnosing him give him a battery of IQ tests, the WPPSI, and the boy scored in the 37th percentile, (a very low score), meaning that he would not even be able to qualify for normal public school admission, but would need special education (for the mentally slow, of course). When she (Karen Quinn) asked the doctor if there was anything she could do to fast-track the boy’s development, the doctor looked at Karen as if she was the one that was developmentally delayed. He then proceeded to explain very slowly to her that the WPPSI was an IQ test that measured intelligence, and that intelligence was genetically inherited and fixed. That was the boy’s IQ score, that was who he was, there was nothing anyone could do about it. His IQ score, the doctor explained, was as fixed as the lovely dimples on his face, and any other genetic traits that he had.

But Karen, with her mother’s help, through systematic teaching of her son (between the ages of 3 and 4) raised the boy’s IQ from the 37th percentile to the 94th percentile! His IQ score was in the 37th percentile at age 3, but at age 4, his IQ score had risen to the 94th percentile! Just one year!!! And for a developmentally delayed chid! If such a child could have such success, what do you think of normal children? The boy got admitted to a top private school, was outstanding and is still outstanding, and by first grade, his teachers were shocked to hear that he had ever been behind.

The success of that experiment led Karen into the IQ testing business and she founded www.testingmom.com to help other parents. Here are some testimonials (www.testingmom.com/testimonials/). For just $39.99 dollars if you are taking a 1 month subscription for Top 1% membership, she offers over 15,000 practice questions. In addition, she sends you her books ‘Testing for Kindergarten’, ‘Ivy Chronicles’, ‘Testing Survival Guide’, Pattern tiles’ FREE, plus much more. See http://www.testingmom.com/wp-content/uploads/on-site-memberships-outlined1.pdf for full details of all you’ll get for each type of membership.

And for just signing up on her site (without paying a dime), she offers 100 practice questions instantly, plus daily emails on best ways to teach your child.

The whole ‘fixed mindset’ psychology is corrosive, robbing children of opportunities and success in life.

7

In my post above, I gave an example of the changeability of IQ scores and intelligence (using Karen Quinn’s case as example), now I answer the question of how to practice the concepts in ‘Mindset’.

I read in ‘Bounce’ that author Syed visited several top teams and noticed that the top and the best coaches praise efforts, not talent. Words like ‘You’re improving’, etc., not ‘You’re so talented’ is what comes from their mouths. And I reasoned to myself ‘if that is what top coaches do, then as someone aspiring to be a top parent, I have to do the same’.

He also tells of how the ‘fixed mindset’ had almost ruined top players in sports. He gives an example of one top tennis player he knew personally who was almost ruined by talent-based praise until the coaches realised what the problem was and switched to effort-based praise. Now the young star has improved far much that he even did previously. And again I reasoned to myself, ‘I do not want my child to be up today, and down tomorrow, because of my giving him a wrong form of praise, I want him to be up and continually be up’. Hence, my determination to continue giving effort-based praise.

8

I’m halfway through “Bounce” after hearing about it here on the forum. Mindset is on my list.

It looks like, from what you describe, that the concept of the mindset goes well with the gist of Bounce (thus far). In Bounce, he really emphasizes quality practice; quality meaning that it’s geared to improve you. Mindset gives an idea of what sort of mindset will improve you.

Personal note, just entering the home stretch and prepping for fatherhood. I’ve used many suggestions in this forum for myself. I’m now drilling myself daily using Anki, and really contemplating the countless ideas I’ve gotten from BK. Striving for improvement, IMO, is maybe the biggest lesson to learn in life… because you could suck at everything, be totally disadvantaged, and yet still wind up on top or at least pretty decent, if you have a strong will to improve. These books go a long way in illustrating that point.

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Thank you I have Mindset sitting next to me and this is the push i needed to get started reading it :slight_smile:

Kerileanne - yes please please do let us know all the details that were on your two posters! I would love to do something similar and finding the wording is a real challenge!

10
I do not want my child to be up today, and down tomorrow, because of my giving him a wrong form of praise
I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but this sentence stood out to me, because I have experience with this exact issue.

First, myself. When I was a teen, I put my worth, value, or emotions/self-view based a lot on how successful I was in my sport. At 12 years old, I was pretty darned successful and was maybe the second best all-around swimmer in my age bracket (and a really close second) in the state. However, by the time I had just turned 14, things started changing because I wasn’t working as hard to improve. Meanwhile, this kid I knew (he later became my best man) had only started at age 12 and ascended to the top when we were 14 (we’re the same exact age, born a few hours apart). By 16, he was a hair off the national record for high schoolers, and I was an “also ran”. This was fairly difficult to deal with emotionally. My friend would have succeeded regardless of what I did, but I set myself up for failure by being focused on the wrong things. It wasn’t until my 20s that I really figured it all out and went on to enjoy my own success…

And my brother was maybe the best basketball player I’ve ever seen at the age of 9 or 10. His school had three teams and stacked one of them, leaving my brother with a bunch of non-players. To win the season, my brother had to score 45 points (in a game that last 20 minutes total) and hit a half court shot at the buzzer… and won by a point against the stacked team. This messed him up. He focused on outcome, on talent, etc instead of what propelled him beyond his peers (passion & spending a lot of time at it, and trying to get better)… by the time he was in 8th grade, those same kids on the stacked team cut him from the squad. He sort of bounced back with my encouragement, but it was never the same.

Don’t think it was all bad though; it could have been tempered by his parents, but no one really had a very good perspective to give him. And in retrospect, I doubt any of us would change anything, because he came down with severe mental illness around 20yrs and this will forever be his life’s peak.

These two experiences will live with me forever, and my personal story really goes with what you said “up today, down tomorrow” because that’s what it was like… if I won, I thought too highly of myself… if I lost, I thought too lowly of myself. Pretty stupid, but understandable kid logic.

11

I’m glad other people feel the same way! I would love to see a list of growth mindset responses, but I did try to go through the book and make a list of phrases the author uses. They’re not all geared toward a toddler, which is what I really want, but maybe some other people will have some ideas on personalizing them.

The one I’ve started using is: “Doing that [moving a big chair, watching word or math flashcards, reading, etc] is growing your muscles/brain. You’re getting stronger/smarter!” Now my 18 month old, when she’s trying to do something physically challenging, will say, “Muscles!” It’s so cute.

Here’s the list:

Making mistakes is part of learning.
Learning is exciting!
Intelligence is something you have to work for.
Effort creates accomplishment.
You have to work the hardest for the things you love the most.
When it’s hard, you’re growing.
You must have worked really hard.
You will always improve if you work harder.
What can you do better next time?
You are a developing person and I am interested in your development.
You practiced so hard to do that!
You concentrated on that for a long time.
Look how your persistance paid off.
Whoops, that was too easy! Let’s do something you can learn from.
If this is something you really want, it’s something you really have to work at.
I love watching you learn.
Doing hard things grows your brain/muscles.
Apply yourself each day to becoming a little better.
How can we fix this?
Practice grows your brain.
Oooh, this is hard. It’s making your brain/muscles grow.
Learning takes time and practice.
Let’s enjoy the effort. Let’s have fun trying.
You’re improving.

And then there’s a list of questions that make good growth-mindset dinner table conversations:

What did you learn today?
What mistake did you make that taught you seomthing?
What did you try hard at today?
What skills are you practicing?
What strategies are helping you succeed?
What did you learn from setbacks?

12

Wolfwind, I’m going to print out that list. Thank you for sharing it!

I first learned about this “mindset” (not from that particular book, but by way way of Alfie Kohn initially, and then enjoyed reading Dweck, Jane Nelsen, Maria Montessori, and others with similar ideas) about 4 years ago. And I can say, with effort and practice ;), I’ve gotten better. :slight_smile:

I like the list you shared.

Here’s some other things we do or have done:

-chat about areas where we plan to challenge ourselves at the breakfast table and recap at dinner (my recently turned 2 year old now regularly uses the word “goal” in daily conversation. I was working through a math workbook with her this afternoon and she informed me that she had a goal to finish two more pages (which, by the way, was farther than I had planned to do with her…but we persevered together to meet her goal). When someone doesn’t end up doing what they set out to do, we never dwell. It happens to all of us, and sometimes it’s just because we didn’t feel like it at the time. We all (adults included) talk about how we felt about not pushing ourselves in that area that day and typically reaffirm what we want to try tomorrow, or what we learned about ourselves in the process of falling short.

-With my older son (preK, 5), we did a science experiment/craft showing how the brain reacts when we try something new, and what it does after repeated exposure. I just used a paper plate and we colored two neurons on it and I gave him some marbles to push from one neuron to the other. We noted how they sort of went everywhere and talked about how these are messages in our brains and that the first time we try anything it’s difficult. Those messages don’t always make it to where they are supposed to go. Then he gathered some supplies (mostly heaps of tapes and some pipe cleaners) to construct something to keep those messages “in line”. When he figured out a way to make the marbles go from one nueron to the next well, I told him his brain actually does something similar…when he (or anyone!) repeatedly tries at something, our brains grow myelin to surround the area cementing the passages for our messages to be sent more efficiently. I would like to do more activities like this with him as I believe it has been very beneficial.

-the other thing I’ve noticed, having been aware of this concept for most of my oldest child’s life, and the entirety of my younger child’s life, is that it’s ALWAYS a battle! Our culture (or, mine at least) constantly informs us of a fixed mindset, or that one has “arrived” at the destination of being “smart”. And this is probably all the more difficult in early learning families who may constantly hear how smart the kids are. With my oldest, I have to fight HARD against this message. He may hear how “smart” he is 5 times in a day out of the house. So, I believe, that if you want to foster the growth mindset, you have a lot of work on your hands! But hey, all that work will grow you. :wink:

13

Haven’t read the book, but read about it in another book which I would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend everyone reads:

THE HAPPINESS ADVANTAGE:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Happiness-Advantage-Principles-Performance/dp/0307591549/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335492986&sr=8-1

You can get a taste of what it’s about and the author’s humor here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work.html

The book mentions many important experiments and research that has been done, including by the Mindset author Carol Dweck.

One thing that’s particular important to us as PARENTS is how NOT ONLY WHAT WE SAY to our children can affect them, but even WHAT WE BELIEVE ABOUT THEM, even if we don’t tell them our beliefs! It’s called the Rosenthal or the Pygmalion Effect.

Basically, they did an experiment in an elementary school where they gave the kids an IQ test. Then they told the teachers of the class who the top 3 scorers were, and how these 3 kids have the greatest potential in exceeding. The teachers were told not to tell the kids and not to treat them any differently, like spending more time on them.
Later on, it turned out that those 3 kids DID excel.

But here’s the thing - those 3 kids were NOT the top 3 scorers - they were chosen RANDOMLY!!

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

In short - be careful what you believe about your child - you are likely to be right, whatever you believe!

(Same goes towards your beliefs about other people, like your spouse, parents, etc. I’ve seen people ‘change’ in miraculous ways myself when I’ve changed my beliefs about them, by just making sure I focus on the stuff that helps.)

14

Very interesting. I am going to take a look at this. Honestly at first I felt somewhat hesitant thinking this book might just be a " whatever your mind can conceive you can achieve" psychology book. But appropriate praise certainly is a good thing. Thanks for the info

Cindy

15

This thread is fantastic - I’m learning so much from it and you have inspired me to read Mindset (I’m half-way through now and loving it).

Wolfwind, thank you for your list, I’ll print it off and stick it up on the fridge as a reminder for my husband and I.

I LOVE this idea Maquenzie! Would you mind sharing a little more about how you do this? I also have a just-turned-two-year-old and I’d love to incorporate this idea into our day, I’m just not sure how to pitch it at the level appropriate for her age.

16

I loved the TED presentation and I’ve ordered the book - thanks for the link

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Seastar – she really just picked it up from everyone else. Is she your oldest or do you have older children? I tend to speak at the level for my 5 year old, and the 2 year old eventually catches on. I think just regular conversation about pushing oneself around a toddler will immerse the toddler in that philosophy. When we do our breakfast chats, the 2 year old is always given a chance to speak but rarely says something that fits the conversation well. In fact, almost daily she says she plans to work on a “Mickey Mouse” work at school to push herself. And I’ve asked, there is no such work. Who knows, maybe in 6 months we’ll figure out she’s trying to draw Mickey Mouse or something (she does draw circles frequently…).

Mostly, I think it’s the attitude she’s immersed in that has her saying randomly that she has a goal to do “such and such”. These have never been breakfast talks, but just spontaneously throughout the day. She understands the word to describe a feeling of determination, and says “I have goals” when she feels that feeling. And then the conversation is usually, “oh yeah? How far are you going to go? Ok, let’s do it!”.

Hope that made sense.

18

Thanks for explaining that in more detail Maquenzie. I’ve passed it on to my husband as best I can and we’re going to start tomorrow! My husband and I rarely set goals, and those we do set are often not met, so I feel it will benefit us more than anything.

19

This six-page article by Carol Dweck summarises concepts in Mindset. Very interesting read. The article is titled ‘The perils and promises of praise’.

Link: http://www.district196.org/evhs/intranet/ProcessInfo/Dweck/dweck%20perilspromisesofpraise[.pdf

I encourage everyone to get ‘Mindset’. It goes into much more detail than the article above. And it is one very good book.

20

Like so many others here I have been completely energized by MindSet, along with others along similar lines in the last few months.
The concepts work so exceptionally well with Early Learning and what parents in this Forum and elsewhere have been doing for years…and yes, it is incredibly difficult to live, especially with kids like ours doing things at what so many consider to be exceptionally young.
The biggest problem for me is that wherever we go for more than a minute or two, immediately and inevitably start the comments by others. I know most of you will have the same problem if you are trying to focus on a growth mindset…
Anyway, I am really finding it difficult to know how to deal with this outside the home for a very young child…

I emailed Dr. Dweck to see if she would be interested in visiting BrillKids and offering some tips/suggestions, thinking she also might find this particular group of significant interest in her field. Just maybe it could also raise awareness of the effectiveness/benefits to EL!

Regardless, she responded quite warmly, so I will provide her the BrillKids link to this thread…so start thinking up any specific questions/concerns and maybe she will be willing to lend her expertise!