Hi
When teaching equations we are supposed to show the one dot card say “plus” then the two dot card, say “equals” and then show the three dot card or are we supposed to show a card stock with the Plus sign and the equal to sign too?
heath: you would show the one card and say “One…” then show the two card and say “plus two…” then show the three card and say “equals three!”
Hi, could you please read my posted comment as it might be of interest. Posted today at 10.12 titled Reading and maths.
Thank you.
HI Chris,
" I recently phoned the GD team and was shocked to be informed that the ability would not generally be retained even if taught from birth. "
Really!!! So, what is the point in teaching?? Did you teach your kids the exact numberals? Which is the 4th and the 5th step? “The fourth step = Teaching Numerals
The fifth step = Equations with numerals
The first step is teaching quantity recognition which is teaching your baby to be able to perceive actual numbers which are the true value of numerals (the symbols).”
If this has been confirmed by the GD then, I don’t see a point in spending so much time.
Hi Heath, i have just sent an email to GD and will post the reply once received. I have asked them to confirm whether the ability to recognize quantity is retained and requested details of any websites of older children or adults demonstrating this ability. The book became available around 1979, so it would be reasonable to expect numerous examples of this ability on the web.
I avoided showing numerals in the early stages and followed the program as directed in the book.
There is a lot I do not understand about this programme, yet I am still doing it with my daughter - she seems to enjoy seeing teh numbers more now that I have found a way to keep her entertained and we have started doing the equations recently too. I imagine however that the full programme does need to be done and numerals introduced.
Personally I do not think it matters if they lose the ability to identify quantities later. (This is all my personal opinion) My reasoning is that they have perceived numbers as quantities. Most adults who are reasonably good at maths will be able to do the same without being able to pick a dot card from a set - they have a general idea. Ask someone who hates maths what 4000 means to them and they probably won’t know (or maybe they can tell you something that costs $4000) but ask a person who thinks slightly more mathematically and they might be able to imagine 2 large schools of children or people watching a concert with a famous singer in a hall.
So if you know what quantities are and understand that when you add them (two chocolates + four chocolates is six chocolates) and so on, the quantity increases, then whether or not you can see 75 or 76 dots on a card is irrelevant. (it’d be useful, but not essential) I feel the idea is to understand maths rather than to perceive dots.
Nonetheless I am very interested to know what they do say as I do not understand why it should be lost if it is practiced.
Tanikit i totally agree
while it would be nice if our kids could recognize quantities, it is so much more important to be able to understand math and how it works. just be able to tell 93 from 92 is not the goal. if fact i always thought kids grew out of that skill anyway. to me learning how to do instant math, algebra and all the other things most adults hate is what is important. if you can learn that at 2 years old you have your whole life to enjoy all the fun things you can do with numbers. to me the best thing about the book “teach your baby math” is that our kids don’t have to be afraid of math, numbers are great fun and there is so much to learn and enjoy. that is my goal and if my daughter at 5 can’t tell the difference between 23 and 33 but understands math and how to do it, well that’s just fine with me.
Chris, I really can’t thank you enough for looking into this. I certainly will give the IAHP a call as well. 
Do you remember the name/job title of the person you spoke to?
From watching a DVD of a Doman math seminar, they certainly seemed to imply that the ability to perceive quantity would be retained permanently. But I will reread/watch the portions of the book/DVD that mention the long-term benefits of the program.
Once I’ve done my own research, I will be blogging about this, yes. Thanks again Chris!
Maddy
PS Thanks for the info on abacus training - I guess you’ve seen the forum thread (great videos!). I’ll be doing an article about it on BrillBaby. 
Hi Maddy,
I didn’t get the ladies name or job title. The number came from one of their books. As yet, i have not had a reply to my email but will forward details when received. If you go to page 22 of their book on teaching Encyclopedic Knowledge you will see a list of the students in their program as of December 1, 1983. Included in the list is Marlowe Doman aged 3 1/2 years. Web evidence of the ability to recognize quantity in later life should be available. (The math system was introduced prior to 1983.)
I agree with the comments made earlier regarding the need to teach quantity prior to numerals but wonder whether this is the best method. A less commercial approach would be to construct cards containing no more than 10 spots along with Cards 1-9. Any quantity from 1-100 could be represented in this way. This would develop an awareness of place value once numerals were introduced.
It is not necessary to be able to perceive quantity in order to perform rapid mental calculations-numerous examples exist and the methods used are easy to learn. Math Magic by Scott Flansburg or Vedic maths. They key to performing mental math is to calculate from left to right and not right to left as taught in school-most significant first. Take squaring numbers ending in 5. Example 25x25 method 2 x 1 more than itself for the first part of the answer. This gives the hundreds part of the answer-most significant result first. so we have 600 to which we add 25 obtained by multiplying 5 by 5. This works with 15, 25, 35, 45, 55, etc
35x35 same method 3x4 to obtain hundreds part of answer and add 25.
Trachtenberg wrote a whole book on how to do speed maths similar to the Vedic method. There are a number of methods of doing fast mental calculations, I just guess it depends what we are trying to achieve. There are a number of options:
Teach our babies to enjoy math
Teach our babies to do rapid mental math
Teach our babies to be math geniuses
Teach our babies to do arithmetic rapidly (vs math which is a bit more usually than arithmetic)
Have fun with our babies while stimulating them
There are any number of answers and far more different options when considering this question. If the answer is to use mental pathways while the child is young then I doubt it matters exactly what method you do use as long as you are stimulating your child. Obviously only a parent can know what they hope to achieve and I would imagine that having fun cannot be the only reason as there are numerous other ways of having fun with your child so obviously you hope to teach your baby something.
I find this a very interesting discussion and would love to know other ways of teaching math to a baby. I know there are a lot of ways of teaching reading but so far this is the only method I have found to teach babies math - Chris how exactly would your method work? I take it you would be teaching 29 by showing a two dot card and a nine dot card - but why would you want to do this - wouldn’t it be better just to teach them 29 in numerals anyway as the two dots would not mean any more to them than the 2 (20 is a quantity, 2 is a quantity, but 2 as a place holder is a totally different concept) Please don’t take this as criticism - I am only trying to understand how it would work and particularly how you would explain to a child the concepts behind how our numerical system works - whether dot cards are used or not it is a hard problem)
Tanikit,
Sorry i didn’t explain my proposal very well. 29 would be constructed from 3 cards -that is two cards with ten spots and a third with 9 spots. I used this and other approaches with my son once i realized that he had not retained an ability to recognize quantity. He had already learned the numerals and constructing quantity from groups of ten and units provided an understanding of place value.
Thanks - that makes more sense!
Hello everyone! For a follow-up to the discussion about a phone conversation I had with the Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential please see this new topic:
http://forum.brillkids.com/teaching-your-child-math/phone-conversation-with-the-iahp/
Hi
I started teaching my son Math. He is 26 months old. When it was time to retire the two card, I showed him the three card and the two card and I asked him which one was two and he pointed to the three card lol . I retired the two card. Is that normal? Is he learning anything? I stopped testing him, yesterday I showed him 15 and he said it was 10. Now every card is a 10. It’s time to start additions. Should I continue additions or show him 1 thru 20 again?
Thank you.
I would start the addition as it gives a review of the numbers all over again anyway - if you show him 1 + 3 = 4 he will be reminded about the quantities 1, 3, and 4 as well as learning about addition.
BODMAS BIDMAS?
http://worldsbesteducation.org/math.aspx posted earlier
http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/book8/bk8i4/bk8_4i3.htm order of operations
Is the BODMAS rule used when preparing equations?- The examples on the first link contain several errors.
Example of rule being applied- 4 × 6 + 18 ÷ 2 (multiplication and division must be done before addition)
= 24 + 9
= 33
Chris.
.
We were discussing this question in the middle of working on Little Math, and figured that we cannot apply this rule, otherwise it will be confusing to the child.
This is because the numbers are shown sequentially, so applying the BIDMAS rule would make no sense to the child since you’d be asking them to have foresight of what’s ahead when deciding what to do with the card that’s in front of them.
And this same problem would apply when showing flashcards, because by necessity, the flash cards are also shown in sequence and not as an entire equation.
What we decided to do for Little Math was to use ‘sequential’ calculations, and explain this to be the case.
Hi KL,
Seems like a sensible solution-could you restrict the equations to those than can be performed sequentially without breaking the BODMAS/BIDMAS rule?
Just ensure that equations are constructed in the order --DMAS.
Chris.
Showing the child equations sequentially is okay. You’re not actually breaking any rules because you are simply telling your child “Multiply four by six, then add eighteen, then divide by two”.
Writing it out like this: 4 × 6 + 18 ÷ 2 is not correct, you’re right, because the correct answer to that equation (written down in that way) is, as you said, 33. The correct way to write out the equation would be
([4 × 6] + 18) ÷ 2
But like KL said you can’t exactly teach order of operations right in the beginning, with the dot cards, because of the way they’re shown, which is one by one. Teaching the correct order of operations (DMAS) can be reserved for after the child has learned numerals, and is learning to solve written down equations (i.e. 4 × 6 + 18 ÷ 2).