HELLO,
i am the mother of three children.my eldest son is almost 6 years old and my twin girls are almost 3 years old.all the three are very naughty.
i prefer to reason out with them when they do things like fighting,biting,hitting etc.,
but, by the end of the day i am so exhausted that i start to beat them and of course, they dont like it.
i feel very remorseful at the end of it.
what can i do? :unsure:
i too read a lot on the topic but most of them dose not satisfy.thanx alot for the help and will try to get the book soon
I have 2 sons and could use some good discipline technics also. I’ve just ordered a book called “Kids are worth it”. It’s gotten good reviews.
The problem I have is the way different people interact with my grandson. If I am able to discipline him and the parents do not. If I do not give him candy, and daddy does. It seems everyone competes for his love instead of doing what is best for the child. How do you deal with disciplining a child when others do not?
I believe the parent has to be very clear in telling the carers, friends etc… how to interact with their children. Sure, no one knows whether the carer will follow the instructions, but there needs to be consistency.
I am currently interested in good books on parenting and discipline too. I am not anti-spanking, but would prefer non-coercive alternatives (I don’t want to replace physical punishment with psychological abuse which I think is worse), and recently ordered P.E.T., Parent Effectiveness Training, which has recently been revised. I have also been recommended Positive Parenting and 1-2-3 Magic, neither of which I have seen.
So I was interested in looking up the How to Train Up a Child book. I saw on the website that it is a very Christian religious organization, but that doesn’t mean anything if the material is good. So I then looked it up on Amazon.com and was rather appalled by extracts taken from the book in the reviews. I certainly have never seen a book get over 500 1-star reviews before, but more than that, it was the examples taken from the book itself (including page numbers) that turned me off this book. Whipping babies? Hitting wee children too young to know right from wrong? I really cannot imagine that children this young are capable of even knowing what they are doing, let alone that it is something they are being willfully disobedient to continue to do after many warnings. Choosing a switch with no knots to not break the skin? Choosing plumbing tubing to hit your child with? This isn’t “spankingâ€. I suppose it works, in the same way that any painful negative input will instill respect and change behaviour (I really respect my iron since burning my arm on it and never goof around using it), but it certainly isn’t isn’t an attitude I wish to use towards my child or any child.
I am sorry but I just want to warn people to check out How to Train Up a Child on amazon or other review sites, and consider carefully that even if they leave out the “pro-spankingâ€, it is something they wish to spend their money on and follow. http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1892112000
English is not my native language, so if you don’t mind, could you explain a bit more what you mean with a switch or a plumbing line? It just sounded horrifying to me and I may have misinterpreted it. :huh:
I agree it sounds horrifying to me too. Kind of like my neighbor who picked up her child and about drilled him into the ground. He was bad but how forceful do you need to be with your child to make them mind. He was 7 years old and willfully disobedient but I would have rather seen him spanked then drilled in the ground.
wow… I better stay out of this one. because I m a strong believer of no spanking, non what so ever!!
IMHO, I feel that parents who spanks are parents who are lazy and rather take the short route instead of taking the time to explain or show their kids. I never want my kids to “submit” to me, Respect … Yes, Submit … No.
I also can never associate “joyful”, “calm” and “loving” with Spanking your kids.
I used to help out at a youth center and most of the problem teens that I have met, are spanked (anywhere from light spanking to beaten) when they were a child. You might think that you have “trained” them to “obeyed” you when they were little. But you have no idea what kind of damage you have done to them psychologically.
If you have patience then you would not reduce to violence. maybe violence is a harsh word but I don’t know what other words to use when I feel that spanking is bullying.
In-order to respond properly to the issue of “to spank or not to spank”, one has to first familiarize themselves with the definition of spanking and abuse. Spanking is defined as a number of slaps on the buttocks delivered in rapid succession, while abuse is defined as to cause injury or hurt by maltreatment.
To the young lady who spoke of the kids in the centre where she previously worked, stating that a large percentage of them receive spanking while growing up is making a “GIANT” leap. If each child’s background is investigated I am 99.9% positive that the correlation that people tend to see regarding spanking and violent behaviour is much deeper and there are many other factors, which are not taken into consideration that may have affected theses kids. People tend to zero in on spanking and automatically blame it for the end product (the child); maybe this is done for convenience.
I myself am I product of a spanking household growing up and I am not at a disadvantage compared to my counterparts who were not spank.
I think each parent has to make an inform decision, based on their individual background and their child when making a decision regarding spanking.
To automatically label a parent, as a bully is as irresponsible as those who beat their children until they are unconscious or scared or use ‘beating’ has an easy fix.
You know what I would have said if my child say that he hates me? I would ve kneel down to his level, look at him in his eyes and asked him why and tell him that when he say that to me it hurts me my feelings, tell him that I know that the toy look like a lot of fun, but we are not here to buy toys today and take him out.
I would tell him before we even go into the toy store that we are not there to buy toys today or whatever the reason we are there and get him to agree with me before we go in.
I also can’t make the association between spanking and teaching your child early. how can you even compare?
Sure, I have met many people who are spanked as child and they came out just fine, But I have also met many people who aren’t spanked and they came out just fine too. To me then logically spanking is unnecessary if I can produce the same result without spanking.
Anyways I knew I should have stayed out of this one, someone took away my karma pt from me commenting on this post Waaaaaah. Oh well, botton line is we will agree to disagree.
Hi prihem,
It takes courage to come forward and ask for help like this so karma to you. I’m sorry your question has gotten derailed by a debate on the merits of spanking, I know I would find this situation very frustrating. I don’t have the answers for you and I don’t think you are going to find them in this forum. You have already said that you prefer to reason with your kids and I find that this forum specializes in that type of gentle discipline. The focus there is on raising emotionally intelligent children with intrinsic motivation and high self esteem so they can grow into adults that have the skills to better cope with stress that comes their way. I have learned a lot by reading the advice there. I think you will be able to find a lot of relevant support through your situation there from mamas that have a lot more experience than me. You and your children deserve the help you are asking for.
You’re right, Twinergy, and I’m giving Prihem a karma point too… thanks for the other forum suggestion. I’ll check it out. And perhaps post on the P.E.T. (Parent Effectiveness Training) book and its techniques once I have received and digested it. Thanks again everyone.
And no, I do not wish to start pinching my son in his upper arm… and I’m pretty sure he’d be very vocal about that too: “OW MOMMY! You PINCHED me! That HURT! Don’t pinch me, that’s not NICE! Be NICE to me mommy!  really I don’t want to deal with entire stores staring at me while he loudly states that to me, revealing I am pinching. Currently I have already slapped his fingers when he gets tired of me telling him not to grab stuff off of store shelves (and yes, I DO discuss with him calmly first, and DO tell him again before going into the store, bending down on his level and getting his agreement, and he will even tell me before getting to the store: “No touch things in the store, no running, no shouting, ok  and I do engage him with me in the shopping, and I do get down and explain to him he might just drop and break that nice $12 glass bottle of olive oil he has just grabbed at. And he HAS seen what can happen, ie the time he managed to grab four containers of bulk black olives and pitch them in the shopping cart on top of all the fruit and veg in their plastic bags, and they all opened and everything was plastic sopping in black olive juice. When he gets tired of being told not to touch, he stares me in the eyes with a defiant look, says “ I WANT to†and just blindly grabs out at anything as I push him by whether it is something he wants or not, breakable or not, dangerous to his fingers or not… ) Frankly I think it’s his personality… in ReadingEggs, he often points to the correct answer, and then says “I wonder what will happen if I click the wrong answer?†and is often delighted by the “oh oh, that was wrong!†or the supposedly dissuasive “beeep†indicating an error, and will repeat what he knows is an incorrect answer just because it amuses him. Sigh. At least he’s curious and inquisitive!
So I am looking for parenting and disciplining alternatives… not to replace slapping fingers with pinching. thanks anyways.
Well I have seen the daddy of my grandson pinch his upper arm as you say. I have seen the bruises that it has caused. I seen my grandson look at his mommy knowing see will not take on this bully then look at grandma to see if she would defend him then run to grandpa crying. So if you think this is effective way to discipline your child and do not consider it abuse I feel sorry for you. The reason his mother and I did not take him on is because he is a bully out of control. I guarantee you if I see him do it again I will take him on. I have seen him do it twice. I am very seldom around daddy because I do not like him. Yes, my grandson minds around him because he is terrified of him. My daughter is not very observant and has no idea what he is doing. He hides the pinch and does not make it obvious. But you can tell by the bruises and the look on his face. I am only the grandparent but it pains me to watch this behavior. I have pointed it out to my daughter. She is not aware he is doing it. She only sees that Colin behaves around him. Now as a grandparent I do not feel that I should interfere but I will if I think Colin is getting hurt. But, I really think daddy should discuss this with my daughter and let her have a say in disciplining the child.
My grandson behaves like Wenjonggal explains, but I would like a better way of dealing with him then pinching his arm. Colin is a good child but a handful. He behaves well at his school and they do not hit him or pinch him. They just have consistent rules with him. So I feel it is possible to get him to mind without abusing him. I think the problem is there is not consistent rules at home and grandmas.
I like supernanny. She gets results, and her methods seem to work but like you im not anti-smacking. I was smaked I turned out fine, but smacking only lasts for so long and is a method I don’t see as effective for the long term.
I use the naughty corner I find that effective even with an 18month year old.
Wow! this discussion thread did go everywhere except the one place it should have gone to. I think - and I might be wrong about it since I am not much of an expert - the one place a child learns to behave and manners is by actually observing what happens around him / her at home and at playschool. I believe a very violent, loud and brash atmosphere breeds a loud and brash child. Again, i could be wrong because hyperactive children can still be difficult and it is a question of channelising their energies to the right direction.
I myself was of course whipped to be corrected… but that did not make me a frustrated or abused child in any way. In India, it is considered COMPLETELY NORMAL to spank or even hit a child who is difficult at the time that they are being difficult. For the same argument - that a child cannot understand what is good or bad if we spank them at a certain age - the child cannot comprehend a good and nice - you are not doing the right thing talk all the time. Children are, by nature, curious and will try to do something that will be seen as not correct by “civilised adults” such as us. Hence the necessity sometimes to drill this information in with a very mild reprimand even if it is physical. But the best lesson is to set an example ourselves. Very rarely will children be difficult UNLESS they come from an environment where there is a lot of shouting or fighting or even arguments going on anyways.
I think this is where WE and OUR ACTIONS become important and effective. WE need to do things right in order to expect them to do things right. My mother for instance says - you cant expect your daughter to tie her hair up and keep it inorder UNLESS you do it yourself - Just an example…
I guess a stern change in voice, a look, a voice modulated instruction should actually be among the first steps - if having a good talk with your child hasnt already worked.
In India, we have a bit of an adage which translated means the following
Explain, Entice, Reprimand, Punish
But going by this adage and another one which literally translates, “People who need kicks to learn wont and cannot learn by kind words”. It doesnt mean “kick your child” - but it does mean, words wont work all the time.
If we can strike the balance and set a good example - i dont think anyone of us would need to spank our children.
Hi,
I can relate with your dilemma. I’m sure things can get much toward the end of a day of being constantly available.
Its likely my answers may not match many here, but I am totally anti-any kind of violence. It models ‘might is right’, which is something very likely to backfire on me once my kid is strong enough to hit back, simply because our relationship accepts it as a way of ‘correction’.
I find it takes more effort, but creates a more intimate relationship to always be standing by the side of children, rather than in a position of judgment.
I once discovered that two children of my cousin whom i babysat often had problems with being violent with each other. It was a total surprise to me, since they were not like this with me at all. Their mom actually spent one day watching us in action, and for the first time, they had an all out physical fight, which quickly dissolved when their mom stayed out of it and watched as I simply threw a pillow at one, then the other, and turned it into a pillow fight, then a tickling attack and then we all collapsed on the carpet panting. We then moved on to something else.
That day, they also came up with more tales and complaints with each other, which I simply nodded and agreed that it seemed like that and moved on.
I find it more useful to not create highlights out of something I don’t want fixing in their minds. Their mom used to ‘correct’ fights and faults reported, so they did that when she was present, but once they were non-issues, we got back to our routines fast enough.
Distraction, redirection and non-correction are my three secrets for wonderful behaviour. In short, me yelling at them not to make a noise doesn’t hold much meaning, nor does hitting them for hitting each other. A problem can’t be solved by becoming a part of it.
here is a quote from the email she sent a week later.
It helps to remember to be on the same side as the child, not an adversary. No resistance, no lack of closeness.
They feel hurt enough to hit out, distract, when things are calm, ask what had bothered them, and help them find alternative ways to deal with it.
Hitting out is usually when they run out of choices. Empower them with choices, and no one wants to be unhappy. Not an adult, not a child.
It is also important to empower yourself with seeing things as a choice. There are many things you can do, and you can plan them out for times when you are at the end of your rope, so that you don’t ‘short’ into spanking.
For example, one child likes to play video games, another likes to follow elder brother. Evening, everyone runs low on energy, tempers are short, younger one clings to elder, elder gets anger, you can’t cope, you get angry.
You have a choice. An example would be “Hey, little one bothering you? Go take some time off with the video game” (he is much more likely to go willingly than time out as punishment). Then take little one with you, do something fun for both of you (tickling bouts are good for no-inspiration times) and then sneakily take him along to watch elder brother play making sounds to keep him quiet (or he will come to know - make it a game). This way, you empower them to disengage from a volatile situation, rather than fall into it helplessly and get punished for something they were helpless to avoid.
Once you are more used to this, you can actually teach them to ‘deal’ with the situation themselves. For example, the elder could offer the younger an option to be with him that doesn’t bother him so much, or the younger could learn to meet his needs to be with the elder without interrupting him, etc. Is there a possibility for both of them to enjoy the toy, to take turns, to find two fun things to do and swap? The possibilities are endless. You will be more relaxed without all the frustration in the air too.
Of course, this is an example. the point being that no situation is without choices. It is when we think we have no choice that we get violent.
I am from India, and I know no such thing. I was brought up lovingly, never hit, and I turned out to be a nice person too. I think it differs from family to family, like anywhere else in the world.
It is not reasoning if you know you are right. It is explaining your rightness. Reasoning is a process of thinking out, not justifying things already decided.
In fact, the most special thing about my upbringing was that there was no concept of “grown ups are right”. When I was upset, I was asked why I was upset and helped to deal with that. I ended up learning about nurturing relationships. I (and two cousins who grew up with me - so its not a one-off thing) have yet to meet a child we couldn’t ‘discipline’ and be totally non-violent with - no ‘correction’, yelling, insulting, dominating, dictating, telling what is right… we use dialogue.
My friend lived in the apartment above ours, and her mother used to hit her. For years, she obeyed her mother, but she grew up to be a person ‘following and enforcing’ rules for herself, as well as her two kids. She used to hate her mother, but she still is okay with hitting her kids ‘for the right reason’. Who decides ‘right’? Obviously not the kid. What happens when you are old and your kid is an adult and in a position to decide what is right? She now gives her mother an allowance and insults her if she overshoots it for any reason, while still looking for her approval in other ways. Sad.
Hi again prihem,
I have been thinking more about your situation and even though I don’t know any quick-fix solutions I may be able to offer some advice. I am also the mom of twins, though I don’t have an older child in the mix, and can really relate to your dilema. Many of the more difficult aspects of raising multiples just aren’t in the parenting books. The hair pulling, biting and hitting are big issues here too. Toddlers are by nature impulsive and they don’t yet have the maturity to understand other people’s feelings. Fighting and hurting is a very common issue with toddler twins.
I just picked up a book I read last year, “Becoming the Parent You Want to Be” by Laura Davis and Janis Keyser, and skimmed through the discipline section again. It describes a lot of great tools that I use on daily basis and emphasizes talking and learning about feelings. There are lots of scenarios and sample dialogues. If you decide to get this book I want you to know that it is a reference guide to the first 5 years so much of the book you will be past already. I highly recommend Part 4: dealing with difficult behavior and possibly skimming Part 2: Children’s feelings for issues that are still age relevant. There is a list of 12 strategies for cooperative discipline pp 226-239 that really has been my survival guide for discipline. There is also a chapter in part 4 on when children are testing limits that covers things like hair pulling and biting. I also just noticed a chapter on sibling relationships that I haven’t read yet, I guess I will be doing that soon. I might suggest you check out the book from the library, if your library doesn’t have it and is part of the WorldCat library network you should be able to order it.
As for the fighting (with the exception of someone getting hurt or their food taken away) I let them work it out themselves and comment on it like a sportscaster, no judgment. I let them draw their own conclusions. Here is an example: “R just took the phone from D. D looks very mad.†Oftentimes this diffuses the fight, D feels like his voice was heard and that is the end of it. If D continues to be upset I will validate his feelings; “It’s OK to feel mad, I sometimes feel mad too.†Another tool I have tried, but my kids are still a little young, is to add something like this “R can you think of something that might make D happy again?†This is leading her to concluding to return the phone to D without telling her. My goal here is to get them to spontaneously consider other people’s feelings without telling them to. That way the sentiment is genuine and more likely to happen when I’m not around. These are some quick examples of the kind of discipline in “Becoming the Parent You Want to Be.â€
I also watch their moods and can actually see warning signs before biting or hair pulling happens and can redirect the behavior. A big trigger is when they haven’t had enough sleep. If this is an issue at your house too I suggest the book “The No-Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers.†It has many, many useful tips for helping kids get better sleep.
Another book I have found very useful is “Playful Parenting†by Larry Cohen. The book offers a lot of examples of how to use play as discipline as well as play therapy, but can get a little repetitive. The preview on google books gives the idea well enough that if you are creative you may be able to come up with your own solutions rather than read the entire book. I have found the discipline techniques very useful in power struggles, such as diaper changes. Now instead of fighting we play a game of “Peak-A-Boo Feet.†We also use a lot of play to make trips to the grocery store more engaging. Even though this doesn’t relate to the exact issues you mentioned in your post, I do find these techniques help save my energy and sanity by the end of the day.
I have no experience with parenting older children, but I suspect Adele Faber’s books may be a good choice for you. “Siblings Without Rivalry†and “How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk†come highly recommended in the Mothering Discipline forum I mentioned in my previous post. “How to Talk …†is available as an audiobook as well so you can look for that at your library.