We live in Texas, and although I would love to send Alex to Soroban classes, it just isn’t an option here:) the closest thing we have is an Aloha math program two hours from here, that will not even consider accepting a child under five…although we are planning on enrolling her then.
For those of you with experience in learning/teaching Soroban, I guess the question is this: is a ‘toy’ such as this a good idea, provided it comes with a parent prepared to use web resources/videos/and books to teach her how to use it beyond the ‘puzzles’ in the game itself? Obviously, I am not thinking of using it to go in depth, but rather as a tool to greater understanding/exposure in the same way that we combine many other approaches and techniques.
Or would it be better to avoid it altogether for now?
I have this one.
It is not a product to teach soroban (absolutely nothing about the ±/* fundamentals of soroban) but rather for game of logic. Pretty tough for young kids I would say …
e.g. Question #30 :
Clue 1: The product of the digits is 24.
Clue 2: The 1’s place has twice as many beads as the 10’s place
the answer is 64.
BUT
you can most definitely use the soroban for teaching soroban. (teaching material will have to be sourced elsewhere) The size is pretty good and the color is kinda awesome!
Keri- I say go for it. I really wanted to spend on a ridiculous amount of money on a teacher size soroban and completely planned to, but the hubby wasn’t exactly on board with that idea and had some alternate opinions before I just did it. Soooo…I had him help me modify a melissa & doug abacus into a soroban until my son can use a standard soon (which should be very soon). It was a pain and I probably would not recommend it although it gets the job done. It would have been much easier to just purchase the one you are looking at which I had also considered.
You can start out with MathSecret, which has a free program for 10 minutes a day. You don’t need any more than 10 minutes at that age on it anyway, IMO. If your DD doesn’t “go for it,” then try to learn the basics yourself and just teach her on your own. If you just try to teach her what you can at home between websites, books, and printables online, she will go into the class with a huge headstart IMO. (FYI, the MathSecret “free” soroban is total garbage, don’t waste your money. It’s far too tiny to be of any use to a little one.) I still feel that it would be best to use a soroban with the same shape of beads from start to finish to encourage the ability to mentally image it sooner with consistency across training (books, software, physical soroban all having the same the traditional bicone bead shape) but my husband can think of better ways to spend $150. ::sigh::
And I also wanted to ask, will they be checking birth certificates? Highly doubt it. Enroll her when you think she can pass for 5 or just get crafty with her birth certificate. I had a friend who “corrected” hers at 15 so she could earn some money at Burger King over the summer. lol I have no shame in sharing that I considered doing this at one point to enroll my daughter in a particular preschool, but it turned out they were willing to bend the age rules and make exceptions. Ultimately I did not send her, but I am totally prepared to do what I have to do to give my kids the best opportunities I can. All’s fair in love, war, and parenting.
Done a little age bending myself I had a 4 year old in a level one gymnastics class with a minimum age of 6! I told the administration after she had been attending class ( along with her sister) for 6 months that if they ever bother to change their stupid rules then I will be able to pay for both of my kids that attend their class rather than just paying for 1! Guess what? They preferred to give me the class for free for the year than change the rules so I could pay them! Stupid!
I am quite sure I will do age bending over and over! I won’t fudge a birth certificate but if they are taking our word for it then so be it! My only concern is making sure the insurance covers multiple ages…kind of important for sports like gymnastics.
Def go ahead and teach the soroban. I used the Showme Soroban software and to be honest it is good but no great and heaven forbid if it does not work on your comptuter like it did mine Good luck getting your money back but lucky for us my hbby got it to work on his. She may be able to manage the small beads I think Sophia could have managed the small beads @ 3 1/2. Since A is not that far off and you think her fine motor skills are there than go for it.
Thanks everyone for your imput!
I have decided to go ahead and start with this one, as I think she will really enjoy it…just a simple introduction, then we will work our way up to a proper Soroban as a reward:)
In fact, one of my biggest concerns in the beginning was the fact that it is so similar to RightStart colors, was the deciding factor. I think with careful instruction this particular Soroban may well act as a bridge, as it is still in keeping with thinking in terms of fives, tens, and units etc…it may well even reinforce the RS lessons very well. However, I think there is some room for caution. Luckily, she has always seemed to enjoy incorporating various manipulatives, concepts, and methods. I guess we shall see, but at that price I find it worth it!
Worst case, we only use it for logic puzzles and move to a proper Soroban sooner.
Baz- thanks for the sample problems
TmT- I love your home-made Soroban! And thanks for the heads up on the MathSecret materials as well, I have been investigating different programs and videos to try. Do your kids find it strange to work both on a RS abacus and a Soroban, or do you find it useful for understanding?
Kimba-other than the issues with the ShowMe software and the customer service, do you like the program itself?
Initially I was very against the idea of using both and having to reteach them on the soroban later. However, AAngeles shared how she used both with Ella, sometimes even at the same time and she said here was no confusion. Even though I was skeptical, I took her word for it and sure enough, it’s worked out well for us to do both. This was a radical change in thinking for me because I did a lot of assuming that my kids would get confused, but just like learning languages it has not been an issue. With my son, we pause the slides as they are presented in the lesson and we often make the numbers ourselves on both the soroban and the RS abcaus, side by side. We also watch it at regular speed once, as well. It helps drive the point home.
I am going to pick up a keyboard number pad because I think it will be easier for the kids to use with this kind of program. I liked ShowMe Soroban a lot because it demonstrated the finger movements, but at the moment I like free better. They have a free trial, but installation was a huge pain in my experience. Once I got it going it was fine.
The program is okay. Sophia likes it. I personally think it would work better as an app rather than software. Your child really needs to know how to use a touch pad on a lap top or a mouse. You can still get results so it does get the point across but you will need to be interactive the whole time with them as there are timed games and levels to get through but I think Miss A would get it just fine. There is a talking bird that is annoying and I think it is a bit clunky so here it is.
Kids can be so different! Mine loved the talking bird, Peety, and would ask to “play the birdie game.” I think you can turn the bird on or off? Maybe I am wrong on that, not sure. I think the majority of programs do have a timed component, mathsecret does as well.
It’s not a proper soroban by any means but I’m wondering if it might be a bridging game that would help to work towards the soroban at a later stage. I find my DD is more willing to try new things on an app for some reason.
I downloaded the free version and it has been great to teach me the elements of simple calculation using an abacus of this style - if anyone knows more about Soroban than me and has seen this app I’d love to have confirmation that what it is teaching is correct. Or if there are any major reasons not to use it.
I have found soroban lessons in our area that start at age 4 - only 6 months away and I think she might be more ready for classes by then.
Keri- I was looking at schools in Chicago tonight (I have family there) and this one has locations in TX, as well. Not sure how far that is from you, but here you go-
TmT-
Thanks so much for the links! I will have to do a bit of investigation. They both seem to be franchise situations, and although they both stipulate age 5 requirements, one or both might be more flexible than ALOHA.
Maybe they can at least give me Information on their programs and I can get back to you neither location is further than about 90 minutes drive, so definitely possibilities.
Karma for the help :biggrin:
Izp11 that app is amazing. My son took to it immediately. We are working on making sure he uses the correct finger/thumb to move the beads.
I do have a question for those familiar with soroban. Will it matter if my son uses his left hand to move the beads? He is presenting as dominantly left handed and it is the hand he chose. Or should I try and encourage him to use his right hand? He does write with both hands by choice but does everything else like eating, throwing etc left handed.
I really like the app too! It has helped me to get over my own fear of the soroban lol I’ve been practicing myself so I’m better able to teach my DD. It’s amazing - I have made a lot of progress in a couple of days. I’d like to make sure I’m doing it properly so I also need some help to know which fingers are used to move which beads on the abacus.
For info, I bought the paid for version of the app. It’s just the same as the free but in the free version you can’t progress beyond about level 18 or so. Annoyingly, in the paid for version you have to start again from the beginning to unlock each level - you can’t skip to the level that you reached in the free app. There is also quite a sudden increase in difficulty at this point. I checked out the Facebook page of the app’s developer. He had just posted a question asking if people thought the app was a bit hard for teaching children. I posted that I thought it needed to have more levels and a gradual progression in difficulty. He replied that they have just updated this version and it will have more levels and not jump up so quickly. He also said that they are in the process of developing an app for kids that is even simpler. So that might be good too.
I am actually loving the app. I am at a level in the mid 20s. I too think it has helped me a lot. I have watched soroban videos and seen many demonstrations online but I was not able to really get the “regrouping” until now. Albeit I did have to repeat the levels a few times once we hit regrouping.
I am not too concered about the progress speed honestly. I just have James repeat levels. Many times over until he gets a high score, not just a passing score. He has now made it to level 4. For me I only go up a level when I get a perfect score.
And to be honest… I cheat with the mental math part and do the math in my head the traditional way. Hard habit to break.
I was thinking about this as well and am conflicted. IIRC, I see children on youtube manipulating the beads with one hand and writing with another. My DD is RH’d, but then eventually wouldn’t that pose a conflict between writing and manipulating in the air with the same hand? The other factor is that I would prefer she use her left hand in a sense because wouldn’t that better stimulate the right brain, or is that aspect irrelevant?
You always use the thumb and nger of your strongest hand to
move the beads up and own. Always keep the three unused ngers
tucked into the palm of the hand, but lightly.
Always use the thumb to add the one value beads.
Always use the fore nger to add the ve value beads and to take
away any of the beads.
As I progressed through the abacus adventure app I found that they use 2 hands. Which admittedly I am not comfortable with. I am certainly going to check out those links you posted Tonya, so that I can start James off with good form.
Don’t worry too much b/c I think either is probably fine. The only reason I say that is because IIRC, Aangles specifically chose a school that uses both hands to better stimulate both sides of the brain? It’s hard to remember now, but you could either PM her or do a search. Of course depending on where you look for an “official” answer if you should use one or both hands, like anything, the answer will depend on who you ask and what methodology they follow. Let us know how it goes! I think the majority of us are all ‘winging it’ and could use the encouragement. lol
Soooo…I had him help me modify a melissa & doug abacus into a soroban until my son can use a standard soon (which should be very soon). It was a pain and I probably would not recommend it although it gets the job done. It would have been much easier to just purchase the one you are looking at which I had also considered.