Where Do I Start?

Early Learning Early Learning General Discussions
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A long time lurker, I found BrillKids a few months ago after reading DadDude’s reading essay, an essay devoured months before we were ever pregnant. Now that we’re officially pregnant, I’m spending more and more time browsing this forum looking for ideas and insights that I can use when the time comes. As a poker player, I’ve enjoyed tremendous success interacting and learning from other winning players over the years, and BrillKids seems like the place where “parents with an edge” hang out and learn from each other.

With that little introduction, I’m wondering if you can steer me in a good direction. I’m sort of a parenting newb. I haven’t read Doman nor do I think doing math flashcards would do all that much other than stimulate the brain a little… that’s not to say I don’t believe in right brain training, it’s just I’m uneducated (even though I took developmental psych in college). So where do I start?

My tentative thinking is that I will teach my baby how to swim before 6 months - and this I know can be done because I’ve seen it. I also plan on using reading bear and other phonics based training in addition to YBCR fairly early on. I’ve seen young kids (<5yr) able to perform mental math at a 5th grade level on youtube, but am short on ideas on how to get there.

I should also add that my wife is an educator and doesn’t believe that young kids/toddlers can learn to read (ha ha ha) or that kids should learn how to perform math using algorithms until middle school (I say hogwash). The good news is that she has not been brainwashed to believe that kids can’t swim when months old (and I just tell her how I’ve seen it with my own eyes). The other good news is that I work from home and we plan on me being the stay at home dad before our child enters school (it’s a private school BTW).
So I have about 5 years to really do what I can to make sure my child doesn’t suffer whole word dyslexia that permeates my wife’s school, or innumeracy for that matter.

My only experience is raising a puppy that we got around 3 years ago. Within weeks, the dog was already the smartest I’ve seen just from spending time with me during the day - and has a listening/comprehension vocabulary of around 100 words at least.

For this reason, my wife is sort of expecting the unexpected with me as the stay at home father… but I’m not going to let her know all of the specifics that I plan on doing or she’ll fight me every step of the way. She’s gotten really upset in the past when I mentioned teaching my baby to read… I figure it will just be a nice surprise to her when it happens and then it will open the door for changes at her school (as she’s a curriculum director)

Sorry for the long intro…
I have about 6 months to prepare myself.

Thoughts, ideas, things you would do differently, etc… all is appreciated.

Thanks,
PokerDad

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Parents with an edge, thanks 8) well it appears you are in the right place. Oh and don’t mind your wife once that baby is out and she sees he/she reading she will be as proud as punch! I think swimming is a great start but don’t rely soley on you baby swimming lessons they need more than one visit a week to learn to swim. Read doman (encyropedic knowledge) it will open your eyes to all that is possible and give you a realistic idea of the effort required. YBCR is a great TV babysitter and easy for very young children but this LR corriculum is more comprehensive. oh you could also consider gymnastics, music, piano, art studies, drawing lessons, Or to keep your wife happy you could start with colours, numbers, shapes, and abcs then she would be stoked to have a 18 month old who new their abcs and could tell the difference between cyan and torqoise! Good luck!

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Thank you!

So far I have the Suess ABC book + Thomas Train ABC book. Has anyone noticed that learning the names of the ABCs interferes with learning the sounds? Just wondering… Flesch talks about teaching the sounds first, but I figure that’s probably more for kids already struggling.
And for swimming, I’m not sure if I’m going to hire a private teacher or do it myself just yet - but the program I’m looking at is a 6 day course where the baby is progressively taught how to eventually submerge and float on its back alone. It’s sort of like waterproofing, and I got the idea back in the mid 90s when a dad would bring his baby (that couldn’t walk yet) in to swim, and he’d just throw him into the water… the little boy would flip over onto his back, spit out water like a fountain out of a spout, smile, and then kick to the side of the pool.

Will get some Doman books - should I get them all?

I worry that I’m not musical; difficult to teach something that I can’t do myself.

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I only used the phonetic sound of the letters when my babies were learning to read. I did do starfall.com’s ABC section, which teaches both letter name and sound. But stick to phonetic sounds early on. Over time, they will easily learn the letter names. Reading Bear will make more sense to them if they only know the phonetic sounds of the letters.

Math is something you can teach doing day-to-day activities in the first few years. Then you can move onto more formal teaching. I did a lot of reading in the early years but I didn’t really start any EK things until my kids turned 3. Then I started using a combination of books and YouTube videos to teach concepts. I stay on one concept for a while. My big things right now with my 3.5 year old are teaching the human body and how plants grow. Three and a half is also a good time to start chapter books (something most educators wouldn’t agree with either).

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Hi PokerDad, if you’ve read my essay, you already know of what I’d say. Welcome! Nice to see another daddy here!

Not that it’s my place or anything, but I don’t recommend trying to conceal anything from your wife. :wink: It’s a shame she’s not on board. You have plenty of time to persuade her, though. You can find plenty of credible people who will attest that the time spent in early education can be very small and still effective, and she’ll of course approve of reading a lot to the baby.

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I taught both my children letter sounds first, and feel that it was useful. Both of them seemed to have picked up letter names by osmosis.

Not that you asked, but I would probably feel quite betrayed if my spouse explicitly taught something to our child that I felt was harmful. Even moreso if it was done behind my back. I’d much rather know upfront what my spouse wanted and perhaps we could reach an agreement we can both live with.

Good luck and congratulations!

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Also, I like poker too. :slight_smile: My parents taught me how to play when I was 5 and I became enamored with it.

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Hi - it sounds like you have some great ideas. Firstly though get through the pregnancy as it can make women hormonal and difficult - its very hard to start speaking to a pregnant women about teaching a child to read when the woman must still go through labour and night feeds and nappy changes - babies change your life more than either of you realise now and usually the first few months after birth are spent learning how to cope with this new human - then early learning can begin (well ok it actually starts now while your wife is pregnant, but usually not as a direct effort on the part of the parent)

I also taught my daughter letter sounds first - she picked up the letter names and also the capital letters from starfall - I had only taught her the small letters.

As far as your wife goes I actually wouldn’t tell her everything you are planning on now - rather bring it up in small doses just before you start doing it - if my DH was to tell me he planned on doing a huge array of things with my DDs I would not be able to take it in and it might cause more worry as you are planning a lot - rather say - I have made these flashcards and plan on showing them to our child twice a day (and then demonstrate) - its seldom anyone could refuse that - what harm can showing some flashcards do - she might not believe that the child will learn anything but she’s unlikely to fight you.

I have also only started doing formal homeschooling since my DD was 3. She learnt to read with LR and flashcards before that and I have since done some phonics with her. For math we did mostly counting and counting objects up until 3 and now are using a curriculum to teach math.

Good luck with the rest of the pregnancy and the early months. Its so great to see them learning and growing.

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Appreciate all the feedback here.

Like I mentioned, my wife knows to expect that I’ll do some unconventional things. She jokes about asking her kid “what did you learn today?” and then having to “undo” it, LOL.

It’s not quite as bad as I made it sound before. We’ve discussed phonics in general, so I know where she stands. She will not get mad if I teach letter sounds, if I run my finger under words when I read, etc. Her aversion is perhaps strictly limited to YBCR, since it’s a video (gasp) and whole word where reading readiness is a religion (her school does whole word). My wife would be more upset if I taught our child math algorithms and did a lot of rote memorization (directed learning in her mind is inferior - and I agree in principle, but she’s a hard core constructivist). If I do EK flashcards, I have a feeling that would make her upset even though I haven’t discussed it with her.

I’ve discussed using an abacus with our child at some point, and she didn’t express concern other than thinking that it’s base 5 instead of base 10. I cannot use an abacus yet, but purchased one the other week to start practicing with it. My wife was dismayed when she saw it, not because she knew what I was up to, but because she had bought me one for Christmas! She now says “that one will be our child’s”… so, she’s sort of on board with my plans but I’m not going to discuss everything, nor reveal that I bought YBCR DVDs from someone off craigslist months ago (LOL).

I’m not terribly worried that I’m going to damage the marriage or anything like that - but discussing every little thing I plan on doing will probably cause her to recoil in disgust.

Is LR more sight word oriented like YBCR, or is it more phonics based? Judging from posts here and Amazon reviews, I should probably opt to just purchase all Doman books that are applicable (EK, Math, Reading, Physical), yes?

PS, I don’t want you thinking I’m some bad guy that goes behind his wife’s back a lot; I just don’t always tell her what I’m up to. It’s been somewhat contentious that I do this, but nothing super polarizing and we’ve been married now 5 years and she tells me we have it great. She also believes I’m going to make an excellent father. I’m just not too worried yet unless I start making piles of flashcards… that might need discussing, coaxing, ect - but there’s time for that later.

Surprisingly, she’s on board with nearly everything I’ve mentioned so far

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Little Reader is more whole word based, but it does contain “pattern phonics” lessons.

I don’t think you are a bad guy, and after you explained some more I can see that I’ve probably made some false assumptions. It sounds like you have a great marriage. And it isn’t my business anyway. Sorry.

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You are getting some great advise here. Tanikit was spot on read it again. Letter names are really not important and you child will pick them up quickly as s/he travels through kindy, school. My own daughter went to school knowing all her letter sounds and only about 4 letter names and she could read a number of words, she had a great time learning the letter names in her first 3 months at school, then jumped 4 levels in reading, much to the surprise of the teacher, who thought she was a beginner. Oh I should mention she was one of 3 kids in the same boat! The others were playing reading eggs ( which is a great online phonics based program for 3-7 year olds).
As to domain borrow encyclopedic knowledge from your local library and once you have read it you will know which ones you want to own. You probably don’t need them All to get the idea. If you need to buy then then encyclopedic knowledge first and then reading…I love to read and read them all :slight_smile: it was fascinating stuff.
I don’t think you will have much trouble with your wife. There are easy ways around the problems ( my hubby doesn’t like the flash cards) we used good books as bit cards, we used real objects for math ( cherios for addition, oranges for fractions) I used ybcr when he wasn’t home lol, and I read to my kids ALOT funny but my hubby is ok with educational computer games! Any little bit you do will help!
Finally with swimming I think do some reading and see how confident you are in the water with your baby before you commit, but a one or two week intensive daily corse followed by you doing follow up should work. I taught my 2 year old to swimming by going to the local pool twice a day for two weeks, I didn’t know what I was doing just knew that I wanted her to be able to swim to the side and get out if she ever fell in. I could clearly see that the swimming lessons here in Australia were crap, I know kids who did them for three years from 6 months old and couldn’t save themselves. I fought my boy to swim also but over this last winter he has developed a fear of water in his eyes so this summer we have started again grrrrr! He did fall in once and saved himself at age 2 so it’s SOOOOO worth it! ( I was nearby and he wasn’t going to drown but I got to stay dry! :tongue: )
An abacus hey! Your kid may be the only one left who knows how to use one properly! Admirable!

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Thank you everyone!!! I’m learning a lot already and really appreciate the insights.

And don’t worry about the marriage counseling/advice. I expected it with how I posted. It’s something for me to consider in all of this which is why I included that information in the original post.

I did find Doman’s EK book at the library and have reserved it online!! Yipee!

An abacus hey! Your kid may be the only one left who knows how to use one properly! Admirable!
Being Caucasian American, I have no experience with the abacus; I will be taking an online course in it. But the thing is, have you seen what using one can do for one's arithmetic ability? Google or youtube Flash Anzan. It's fairly remarkable, and although I did very well in math as a kid growing up, I always felt like the problems should be able to be done in my head... but never had a way to make it work. I'm hoping the abacus will be a decent vehicle for achieving this, and if I can do it... then maybe mental math will be in the cards for my child.

Thanks again everyone!! I don’t know how to give karma to people… or I’d give everyone karma points.

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I’m using the Singapore Math curriculum with my child. We have only done K and 1st grade so far. But they teach kids how to use strategies to solve problems. They’re really good for mental math because they make it easy to break down problems to solve them. It makes it easier to do problems in your head.

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Hi PokerDad,

I teach my baby phonics using the powerpoint version of DadDude’s Fleschcards. 2 wonderful members of this great forum have converted those cards into powerpoint files.

See the files of ‘annisis’ at http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=myfiles;u=38125;pg=2 and http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=myfiles;u=38125;pg=1. Check her files with ‘Flesch’ in its title.

Another member ‘GloriaD’ has done a similar thing. See http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=myfiles;u=4872. See her files with ‘phonics’ in its title.

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Hi PokerDad,

Although I’m a mom, I still understand you and your approach with your life partner.
At first, for few years in fact, even I found it hard to see the effectiveness of teaching children early.
Only when my son was 2 years and 2 months did I begin to understand and be happy that it really works! He started speaking and singing in English (non-native language) only few months after starting speaking his own language.

It also takes (a lot of) time for me to explain my life partner what I’m doing and what I’m preparing for my son. He can’t read what I’ve been reading for so long, there are many materials, many websites etc. - it took me years and hours and hours of research!
It’s good he trusts me. Still, I can’t tell him all because it may be scary when a person (the dad or the mom, in your case) doesn’t know what is going on in fact and me, the parent doing the early teachings, don’t have the time to explain it all so that the other understands and cools down :wub:

So… I created my own safe place for what I’ve been doing by giving reasons to be trusted - the baby is ok, it’s not too much, it’s not pushy, it’s just only when and if he wants it, he likes it very much and even shows it with such a great joy that the whole house is filled with happiness.
This way, I have the permission to do what I know it’s right for the children - as I respect the kids’ choice and development - and I get the help I need or I’m just not disturbed in those special moments. :wink:

And when a dad sees how his son has grown up and that mommy is taking care of it wonderfully… he’s convinced! :laugh:

Andrea

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PokerDad,
I’ve really enjoyed your enthusiasm and wanted to share some things that I didn’t see you mention that have worked for us. FYI: dd = 8 m/o & ds = 30 m/o

asl - i can’t rave enough about signing time and learning asl. i had complications with my first pregnancy and birth, so i was an emotional mess for a good 6-9 months after ds was born, however, i was able to recall a few things 1) fussy babies who are not sleepy, hungry, or need a change like stimulation, and 2) do what you can, stay relaxed, and enjoy. fortunately, while i was preggo i taught myself the manual alphabet as well as a handful of meaningful signs and for the first 6-9 months that’s about all i did. i didn’t get ybcr until he was 6 mo old, but those signs were our saving grace. i didn’t have energy, nor belief, nor knowledge, at that time, for flash cards. but i always had my hand with me. so when ds was fussy, i’d sing that abc song and if sign to him. after a few seconds, he’d calm down. did i do this everytime he was fussy - no, but often enough, and amazingly it would work. he was curious about what i was doing with my hands and understood that i was trying to communicate something to him in a peaceful and joyful way. also, often while i was out with him, and even at home, i would do the alphabet with him. when he was itty bitty, sometimes i would just get through a few letters before he lost interest, and that was ok. as time progressed, the song has become his favorite. of course, he has a pretty large jukebox in his head now, but the abc song is one of his favorites!

so! yes, he learned the letter names before their sounds, but he picked up their sounds when he was 1 thanks to several youtube videos, especially one that does the alphabet song, phonetically. he never had a problem with it, nor did he have a problem understanding that the cow makes the moo sound, the dog goes woof, a cat says meow, and b is for ‘buh’, so on, and so on. like kauiheidi’s daughter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxmS1nQVsno - awesome video!!), ds also loved the a for apple, a, a, a song. as a matter of fact, you’re more than welcome to browse our learning playlists (about 300 learning songs) that ds soaked up before he was 2 - many of which are signing songs too.

back to asl: i think it’s a fantastic foundation! unlike many who teach it and drop it once their kiddo starts talking, we kept it up. when ds was about 2, he started trying to sign conversation with me, not just words and isolated sentences. of course, i couldn’t make it all out, lol, but he clearly knew what he was saying, and sometimes would tell me and then it would all make sense. but the point is this, he spontaneously was motivated to perfect his signs too. that set him up for great dexterity, which is wonderful for writing! he loves writing and drawing, btw, and a few months ago really started doing well with his shapes, numbers, and letters. he can use large markers and crayons, but he can also use much smaller writing utensils, and i’m certain it’s from the signing.

the other great thing about signing - i believed it helped with his spelling. whereas we could sign dog, cat, bird, etc, when i went phonetic with him, then i started incorporating the manual spelling. again, we use flashcards too, but often i don’t have flashcards on me, but i have my hands :wink: so, i could sign d-o-g while i was enunciating ‘duh’ ‘awe’ ‘guh’, and do it quickly while saying ‘dog’ and it was similar to having a board with it written in front of us, but not needing the props.

highly recommend signing time. you’d think 2 years later watching these shows nearly daily that he’d be over it - nope! thankfully, there are over 30 videos, so he only loves it more! before we got the whole set, we used to get them from the library. if our local branch didn’t have them, they would bring them in from another library, sometimes in another city/state altogether. they even told me that i could request they be purchased, which i did, but then we ended up getting them for christmas, so i didn’t have to keep returning them.

ok, so much more written than needed for you to get the point - asl is beyond great, look into it too :wink: there are other advantages of introducing it too, such as it being another language, it helping with piano, art, and more! oh, and i don’t get any sort of compensation or discount or anything from signingtime, but believe me, i should look into it! they even have a few of the shows in spanish, which was great too. and just because they have baby signing time, don’t think you shouldn’t show the regular ones to your child.

oh, the other thing that i was going to share, but much more quickly, since it’s late and i’m getting tired: ec. again, i was pretty slow on this with both kids in the beginning, but ds was still using the bathroom on his own when he was one, which was FANTASTIC because not only is it better on the budget and the planet to use less diapers, but oh my do they have some grownup sized bm’s as they get closer to 2! it’s just so nice, especially now that we have the baby, to not have to deal with his diapers too, and just ‘ok, let me know when you’re ready for me to wipe’. lol. and like everything else, teaching them this EARLY is much easier than waiting until you’ve TAUGHT them to use a diaper. yes, using a diaper is not natural for them, but they are quick learners, as you know :wink:

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Thank you a bunch for this!

I’ve come a little ways since I first posted. The best thing I’ve done is start by finding people on the forum that seem to know what they’re talking about or have had some good successes and then read through all of their posts. I’ve done this for a handful of people and have found that it has given me a good impression of where people start and how they progress. In doing so, I’ve read a few things that I would have never read and have learned a few things I would have never learned.

For example, you mentioned EC. I had never heard of this! It wasn’t until I was browsing through an old thread here where someone mentioned it. Now I have three EC books from the library and have really been researching it. I’ve also discussed it with the wife and she’s sort of on board with the idea… (she doesn’t oppose it but probably won’t go out of her way initially to implement it herself… but to me, this was a big step forward that she wouldn’t oppose all my ideas, even if they sound strange at first). I suspect that shortly after starting, she will see the value and benefit of EC and will buy in a little more. I also shared your paragraph with her this morning and it’s those types of comments that people either write in the thread or send to me via PM that helps convince my wife that I am not some lunatic, ha ha ha, and that I’m really seeking the wisdom of more experienced parents. I mean, seriously, this is not an EC board; for someone to mention it to me here means more than if I were on some diaper free message board.

My wife also liked your idea of ASL and told me this morning that she’d like to do it; I already had saved the ASL website to my favorites, but I think I’ll check out the signingtime videos.

Thanks!

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PokerDad-
I also discovered SigningTime when my daughter was tiny and our whole family fell in LOVE. Cannot say enough wonderful things about them. Our family have all learned enough ASL to communicate in sentences, without working at all! In fact, when my daughter was a year old we actually had to seek out a babysitter from the university that could sign with her because A would try to communicate (with no whining or crying!) and would get very frustrated when people didn’t understand!
A couple of additional bonuses that I hadn’t realized when we started them: they are all done in units, so not only did she learn communication words, she learned the seasons, her ABCs, days of the week, counting, and so many more I can’t begin to list them! The biggest bonus is that it fits in PERFECTLY with EL because the written word is displayed on the screen prior to demonstrating the sign, then again after…so even though your child will be doing something completely different, all concepts fit together perfectly…
Also, when we started another language, ASL acted as a bridge between English and ANY other language!

Huge was the day that I realized. My daughter could decipher homonyms and homophones because of sign language! We were baking and when I explained that the white powder we were using was called ‘flour,’ she looked at me quizzically, and quickly signed ‘flower.’ immediate understanding and avoidance of confusion that might otherwise have taken a very long time to correct. I told her no, not ‘flower’, but flour…I didn’t know what the sign was, and she took off for her bedroom, dragging back her magnetic writing board…she wanted to SEE the difference!
This has happened so many times now I have stopped counting…sometimes she will even drag over my IPad to insist that I provide her with a sign if we don’t know it!
A couple of things…I don’t know where you live, but SigningTime is becoming so popular that some local PBS channels are opting to play it…ours does once per week, and we have DVR’d them even though we have also bought the DVDs…
They also have an app that has some basic words that my daughter likes to play with when we are waiting in line sometimes…
Bonus, if you sign up for their emailed newsletter, they often have great sales and additional clips like special holiday signs. At Halloween, they taught candy, Happy Halloween, pumpkin, that sort of thing!
Anyway, I honestly think this is a can’t miss because it has been such a learning experience in so many ways, and so much fun! My husband and I actually find ourselves communicating across a room full of people and in all kinds of situations!
Hope this helps!
Kerileanne99

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What EC books did you get?

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Kerileanne99, Thank you! My library has a ton of these DVDs. I’m going to check out a few and watch with the mrs. to get a good idea of them.

Maquenzie, The three they had at the library were Diaper Free (Bauer, have not looked at yet), The Diaper Free Baby (read about half of it, seemed very repetitive), Infant Potty Training (about half way through, seems very in-depth and perhaps a bit overwhelming so I slowed down a lot to digest everything). I can give a much better review of them once I’ve gone through them all… and especially when I actually start implementing.