what is the best method to teach decipiline

[karianne]

I thought I would chime in on the topic! Interestingly, I thought I would be a parent who spanked…mainly because I was when I was younger. I don’t think I’m scarred from it or anything, as it was only occasional and done to get our attention. Now as a mom of 2 daughters, I simply don’t feel comfortable with spanking. Every parent is different and you have to do what you feel is best for you and your kids.

Before my first daughter was born I read John Rosemond’s “New Parent Power!” which is really a combination of two of his books (“Parent Power!” and “Six-Point Plan for Raising Happy, Healthy Children”). I just really liked his philosophy on parenting, and the book is great because it covers other topics for each stage like pacifiers, biting, tantrums, bedtime, moral development, allowances, curfew…you get the idea. Basically from infancy through the teen years. I also liked “Happiest Toddler on the Block” by Harvey Karp and “How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk” by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish.

I also use the steps like on Supernanny…a minute for the kid’s age. We only have 4 house rules which have so far worked for us, and if one of these get broken then the steps are the consequence.

1. Listen and Do. (My all-time favorite because it pretty much applies to anything!)
2. Keep hands and feet to yourself.
3. No taking toys, share them.
4. No screaming inside. (Not usually an issue, but there was a phase we went through!)

You have to be consistent or it won’t work and make sure to follow her method (say why on steps, explain again after, kids says sorry, hugs & kisses). I figure I would rather teach them how to behave now so that is all they have ever known, rather than deal with battles when they are a bit older and out of control. Don’t get me wrong, they still get attitudes sometimes (anyone with a 3yo knows what I mean!) but I am fortunate to have well behaved kids disciplined in a way that I am comfortable with.

Also, I think it is really important that both parents are on the same page with how and when to discipline…kids just need that consistency. Hope this helps!

[saniso]

I am glad this topic is discussed . Till a couple of months ago, my child was like an angel. granted, we had crying issues and feeding and sleeping issues but thise seem tolerable compared to behavioural isses we are facing now. I use time-outs and like some one said earlier there were days when I was giving her 5 time outs in less than an hour. I had learned about counting from one of my neighbors. She counts upto 5, so thats what I started to do and it works half the time but we have to be very consistent. I had no idea about the Magic 1-2-3 book. I am going to read it. Thanks for sharing all the insights.

[Autumn]

Hi Krista and everyone!
Here’s one of my biggest concerns with this method. I don’t want to ruin them…or even change them for that matter. My kids make me soooo happy! What I mean is, my kids are sooooo sweet and affectionate, they tell my husband and I this least 20 times or more a day how much they love us and how happy they are!!! I’m not just saying this. LOL! They are a REAL JOY! And they try very, very hard to always please us. We do set the standard quite high for them. But Lindsay our 4 year old tell us we are doing a great job of raising them! We don’t normally ask this…she just tells us what’s on her mind. We openly talk about EVERYTHING with them, though. Whether it’s good or bad. We do have open lines of communication down pat. I just wish they listened 100% of the time instead of 90%. We have spanked with our hands and even switches in the past, but now a days, we normally just send them to their bed if they aren’t pleasing us. This does work for the most part. I think it’s much more about the parents attitude and TOTAL 100% consistancy. Which I think is were most of us could use the extra help. I truly appreciate all feedback on this topic.

Thanks!
Autumn

[LongTallDrink]

Please check out the book I mentioned earlier - Kids Are Worth It! Giving Your Child the Gift of Inner Discipline by Barbara Coloroso.

You can’t make a child do better by making them feel worse. At best you will have a child that minds out of fear, at worst a teenager that rebels with dire consequences because she doesn’t know her own mind.

[karianne]

LongTallDrink- I will have to look into that book…sounds interesting and I’d like to see how it incorporates into my current beliefs, or might change them a bit.

Autumn- It is so funny you say that about your kids, because mine are the same way! My girls are constantly hugging and kissing us (and each other!) and my 3.5 yo tells me how much she appreciates things and “You are the best Mama at (of) all!”. I feel so truly blessed to have such loving and smart little kids. Like yours, most of the time we have no behavior issues. If we do, usually I am able to redirect them or guide them to a solution!

[Joha]

First of all, I want to say I respect parents “parenting decisions”. I know all of us want the best for our children and do what we think is right for them, because we sure love them! Now, I read this post and was thinking about getting the book “To Train up a Child” because some of the reviews here. Looked in amazon.com and the reviews are very discouraging. It has two and a half starts (not good to start with) and some of the reviews are scary. I would really like to hear people’s personal experience about following the book.

[Autumn]

Hi Joha,
My husband and I are reading the book. We’re about half way through it. And we like what it says about parents needing to behave the way they want their children to behave and many other great things. But what we don’t like is leaving marks on them. And swatting them on the leg or arm does. And it says to use this method every single time you dislike anything they are doing…no matter how minor it is.

My husband and I have spanked, used time outs and many other things for discipline in the past. Ist we give a warning and talk to them about what we dislike. If this doesn’t work we give a time out in their bed for about 10 minutes, this usually works well. This gives them time to think about what they did and they hate to be away from the family. Then we talk about what happened and they have to appologize for what they did. If for any reason we are not pleased with the outcome, they go back to bed for another 10 minutes or so. It is a long of time for young kids, and it really makes them think about things and miss us. We do use the spankings from time to time, when they are repeatedly disobey.

Glenn Doman does comment on raising kids. He says something to the fact of kids need to know that the parent is in charge. He comments on doing it gradually, if you will. For example: 1st try talking to your child, time out 2nd , and gradually keep turning up the heat until they do listen. Yes, if all else fails then spank. But parents need to make it clear that they are the boss. He says kids need this and actually prefer it. I believe this is in the “What to do about your brain injured child” book.

I certainly can give you quotes from the book if you like. Just let me know. I am a strong believer in Glenn Doman’s teaching. I respect my child enough to talk to them first. I think as a parent we just have to do what feels right in our heart. Ultimately we are the ones who have to live with it and our kids!

One last thing…in the book “To train up a child” even though we might not agree with everything it says, there is still something to gain from it. Just like talking to a person who you might not see eye to eye with. There’s still something you can learn from that person. I think it’s so crucial to keep an open mind and remember that no two people are going to think the same way, not even your spouse! And we can always learn something from someone else!

[Joanna07]

This book sounded very interesting until I read your comments about it advising to spank. Now it’s banned from my amazon wish list for good.
There’s so much talk about spanking being harmful to kids, they are so vulnerable. We spank them and then we want them to trust us… what do we teach our kids by spanking them? I strongly believe that spanked children are more aggresive and this is not the right way to discipline children, no matter how badly they behave, it can only make the matters worse. I was spanked as a child, I remeber the rage I felt and how much I hated my parents for doing this to me. I will not do this to my child.

The books I reccomend are “Discipline Without Distress” “Between Parent and Child” “Child:The Challenge”

[Joha]

Autumn,

Thank you so much for your comments. I have to say I don’t disagree with pating your kids on the bottom as a last resource. I think spanking sounds like you are hitting your kids repeatly and full fource and that is not what I agree with. I think I may check some of the other books that people have suggested. I’m really interested in finding methods of discipline or training so I may never have to pat my baby on her bottom. That would be ideal! :yes: :laugh: Right now I can’t even picture that into my head (spanking), but I’m sure that is because she is so little that she has never gotten into my nerves.

Has anybody heard or know about the “wisdom stick” technique?

[Autumn]

Hi Joha,

I have never heard of the “wisdom stick” technique. It does sound like an ancient asian method…maybe that’s called “caning” ? But the “training” and “caning” method is far too harsh for us. Maybe others have heard of this “wisdom stick” technique???

Autumn

[Joha]

Ok, let me just explain what I know so there are not missunderstandings here. One of our friends used a wood kitchen spoon and they called it the “wisdom stick”. When their girl didn’t behave well they will just touch her with the “wisdom stick” and that meant she wasn’t behaving well. I’ll call my friend to find out the details and how it worked and share it. I was wondering is someone else had used it or hear about it.

[Joanna07]

I found this discussion about “wisdom stick” on the “mothering” forum
https://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=838824

[cp]

I’m always in a dilemma on whether to spank or not as I read that spanking may tell our children to get results with violence. So far I gave my 19 month old DD a little slap on the hand twice. In the first incident, she hit my head with a soft toy and I told her “No. Not nice”. Straight after that she did it again with a remote control and I told her “No” but she did it again with a phone. Basically she just grabbed whatever she could see and used them to hit me and each time it just got harder. She only stopped after I gave her a slap on her hand. Her eyes were filling up with tears and I immediately regretted it and I apologized to her. I think she was trying to see how I would react and it was like a game to her. I have to partly blame my husband for it as he was using a soft toy to hit her head playfully a few days earlier.

The second time I gave her a little slap on the hand was when she repeatedly threw her food to the floor on purpose and my countless “No” did not work. For the next few times over a week or so, she would hit her own hand after she threw her food. That made my heart ache. I have not hit her since then no matter what she did.

However, I think I traumatized her even more last week when my husband had been away for more than a week and I got really tired but that was no excuse. I lost my patience and grunted quite loudly at her when my “No” did not stop her from kicking at the mirror, something that I’ve been telling her not to do and explaining that she may get hurt if the mirror breaks (it is time to remove the mirror). She got really scared and closed her eyes tightly as if trying to make my angry face go away. I felt bad immediately and explained that I was angry and how she could have hurt herself. I apologized and hugged and kissed her. She seemed fine after that but I found out that the damage was already done when I saw the fear in her face when she heard me said “Angry” as I was telling my mom the next day about the incident. I’ve never seen that kind of fear in her before … not even she was having stranger anxiety. I wonder if she would be less traumatized if I had slapped her little hand the very first time she kicked the mirror. One thing I know is slapping her hand did not help her remember not to hit me (or anyone for that matter) … she just hit me yesterday again after a kid in the playground tried to hit her. I think it’s “monkey see monkey do”.

I really do not want to spank my DD but if it is to stop her from hurting herself (or anyone else), I may just have to … like I said I’m in a dilemma now and I will have more to deal with as she grows. If you use spanking, do your children learn to hit others as well?

[nhockaday]

Something that people need to understand is that you are doing more harm than good when you cuddle and apologize immediately after you have scolded or spanked. That is very confusing to a child. It would be more appropriate to take a few deep breaths and cool down and then explain to your child what they did wrong without giving them positive attention. Cuddling and apologizing for your burst of anger (because they were doing something wrong) is not going to help them learn to act right. They will learn that it is ok to to bad things because they only get in trouble for a short time and then get positive attention from it. That is just adding fuel to the fire, so to say. I understand that it can be difficult to see that your yelling or spanking has upset your child, but if they have done something that warrants it, then you got angry for a good reason. Children need to know right from wrong, and sometimes just saying no over and over will not do the trick. You can work on not getting so angry when they do something wrong, but yelling is not going to damage them; they will get over it in a minute or two. You must set firm boundaries and consistent discipline or you will have a child that learns to take advantage of you and walk all over you.

Joha, my mom used a wooden spoon to spank my younger sisters if they were very bad. She called the spoon “Woodetta”. It was kind of a little joke name that we made up for it. If they were being bad, my mom would threaten, “I’m going to get Woodetta”, and they would normally stop misbehaving.

[Joha]

Amen nhockaday! I totally agree.

@nhockaday post:34

Joha, my mom used a wooden spoon to spank my younger sisters if they were very bad. She called the spoon “Woodetta”. It was kind of a little joke name that we made up for it. If they were being bad, my mom would threaten, “I’m going to get Woodetta”, and they would normally stop misbehaving.

Wow! I want to know more about “Woodetta”! Could you please how your mom implemented it? Meaning how she explained to them that it was a way to “punish” them when they didn’t behave well.

@Joanna07 post:32

I found this discussion about “wisdom stick” on the “mothering” forum
https://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=838824

Thank you for the link. I’m not sure if you read i, but it was ful of people with opinions without knowing what it is. :sleep:

[nhockaday]

I think Woodetta was just used if they were very bad or they were repeatedly bad. It was used to spank just like any other parent would spank their child. It was not used often, just for the extreme circumstances. It was used on the clothed butt, not on arms or legs, and it was not used in a very harsh way. Just a light pop with a wooden spoon hurts. Try it on yourself.

I will not be using a wooden spoon on my son, although I have heard of other parents using them too. In some ways I can understand how it would be better to use a spoon or a paddle so you are not using your hand, but using some other instrument can be very painful if you are spanking because you are very angry (which you would be most of the time). Most people act more aggressively if they are angry.

I can’t say that I agree with spanking at all. We try to teach our children not to hit or act out when they are angry or frustrated, and by spanking, we are in some ways teaching them to do just that. I try to use other methods of discipline instead of spanking. However, I have popped Gabriel a few times for very extreme cases, but it is not something I feel good about doing, nor do I want to think about doing it again. I have always been a short-tempered person who is quick to get angry, so it is something I have had to learn to suppress since I have become a mother. It is still something I work on all the time. Luckily, I have raised my son to be well behaved (most of the time), although he naturally tries my patience sometimes. He is a toddler after all! Good thing is, is that he is generally very well behaved in public. People constantly comment on it!

There were times when he was younger that he was starting to act out and have tantrums. I had to figure out a way to discipline him to show him that the way he was acting was not right. I found what worked for my child and stuck to it, as every other parent has to do. What works for my child may not work for your child or your beliefs. It is very much trial and error and being consistent, like I already said.

[Joha]

Ok, then Woodetta will not work for us either. Again, what my friends did ws not hitting,it was more related to what the wood spoon ment. I just need to find out how it really works, so we don’t keep especulating.

[Joanna07]

Joha, maybe what your friend did, was simple “time in”, the spoon was just a symbol to bring everyone together to discuss the conflict situation

[Mandi_Quiring]

We spend a lot of time teaching our kids concrete data… bits, facts figures, I think sometimes we do not teach the basics to our children. Children do not instinctively know the rules of our society or household. They are learning and it is our job to teach them.

First and foremost I believe we as parents always set the example. If you hit your child will be more aggressive. If you yell your child will yell. Almost every day I remind myself this. THe calmer and more relaxed I am with a situation the more receptive my child is.

I am not proud of this, but a handful of times I have spanked my almost 3 year old. A gentle swat… and once a quick 3 swat. I observed the reselt first hand that my child became more agreesive…

So this is what I have done and it seems to be working…

I tell my child I do not like what you have just said to me, you need to repeat what you have said in a different way.

I repeat myself… yes I repeat myself… Hes 2. Hes learning. A typical conversation…
Logan pick up your napkin and put it in the garbage-- NO!!-- same tone- me- Logan pick up your napkin and put it in the garbage.-- NO thank you— Logan pick up your napkin and put it in the gargage-- Okay. Guess what I would have never believed it but this has worked. I notice that sometimes they experiment with their answers…

I know this brings up the argument of a child must obey at first command… Well all I can say is my child is really good. I am told all the time, and I see it. Yes, I compare kids… and im not just being bias my kids are awesome.

I notice that sometimes being tolerent and patient and asking them again to do what was asked in the same tone and waiting a minute or two usually works.

If my child is slow at getting ready I make it into a game. I try to look at the overall objective of what I want to accomplish and try not to get into power struggle games.

The couple times I have swatted my childs bum I felt horrible… and it never was the quick solution that I had imagined in my head it would be. I must say though I am not into parenting with threats… I say something I do it… Example, Logan if you do not act appropriately around other people we will go home… and we go home no matter what. Its not a huge lecture on the way home, or talking to other parents about how naughty my child was. It is a decision to respect their lives and NOT talk about their behaviour except with them in a calm manner.

Is parenting hard? Yes. Do time outs, spanking, really work any faster then just asking them again? I dont think so. I have a mantra that I tell myself on difficult days I LOVE MY KIDS I LOVE MY KIDS I LOVE MY KIDS lol and exhale.
On difficult days I tell my two year old to fill his lungs with air and push it out… it calms him down… usually gets a couple laughs outta him and changes the mood enough to make a happier child that will help me accomplish the objective or task at hand.

I have travelled the world and have met successful and very happy people… all had one thing in common a very happy childhood. Have fun, laugh, and giggle as much as possible and the rest will fall into place.

Need your toddler to brush their teeth… play dentist… hair, play hairdresser… dont worry you wont be playing the game every day… they tire of things just like you do. And you know what the days you cant play then tell tell him you cant.

For the days that nothing seems to work, and they are impossible… and are definately doing things illogical and maddening… try a time out, and as a last ultimate resort… yes we are the parents, we do need to put our foot down every once and a while (about once every 4 months here is the average… one swat on the bottom puts attention on the spot.) Just be sure that its not frequent or else I think you are doing something wrong and failing as a parent.

There s my 2 cents… hope it made sense.

I find the books by Suzuki… yep the violin guy help a lot… clearing the mind and setting the example make you the best teacher and student.

[trinity_papa]

Interesting … I have to admit i do spank my girl … if that is the correct word …afterall it conjures different degree of meaning to different people … spank for me is just a short tight slap on the cheek without leaving a mark … meaning its not that hard as people thinks an adult spanking another adult … by god the degree of force must depend on the recievor and never done in anger … of course if i am angry i have othe routlets like smashing my 42 inch LCD tv … 2 or 3 so far …

anyway … teaching or disciplining a child … the parent must always have a clear a steady mind … know which actions are not allowed or allowed or is a genuine mistake … this means constant observation … and understanding … and please use it sparingly … and only once or twice in a session … eg when she is throwing a tantrum …, refuse to listen and continue on its dangerous activity … , where immediate action is required and a good spank would perk up her attention … yes she will cry and not be happy … but it saves her life and her from injury or to remove bad social behaviour … at certain young age talking and reasoning doesn’t work … eg we attended a playgroup and there was this young boy under 3 … he was going around kicking other toddlers bottom … and what did the teacher and the father did?? the tried to talk reason and tell him no … did the boy stop? definitely not … he is saying … father said no … i kick again … and he says no … now that’s fun … what’s he going to do … continue saying no … wow i solicite a response from him by kicking someones bottom … needless to say i scrap that playgroup … what kind of rubbish are they teaching … letting a bully run free … and the parents couldn’t even control their little beast …

You don’t reason, you can’t reason with a toddler … who is going into thier terrible 2s … you can’t make them stand in a corner … you can’t give them time outs … you need them to cooperate in order for it to work … and if they are willing to cooperate … soon they will learn why am i listening to you … so what else are you going to do to me if i don’t listen … answer nothing … because the law forbids it … and once they wise up to it … you start to lose them … and if they do cooperate … and they cooperate thru to their teens or more … it may make a heavenly parenting experience … but what kind of adult will they grow up to be … would they even be able to live with the cruel social fact of the world … listening or following rules or laws set by other people … would they be stupidly misled … because well there was a rule … but its only used for herding the general public … so there are pros and cons …