Hi. M daughter is 3.5 years old. I started her on the doman method with sight words from about 20 months, on and off. She is now reading easy readers and recognises lots of small words outside of context of a book, like my, and, the, said, dad, live, etc.
I was really pleased with how she is going until her kindy teacher spoke with me the other day. She said she is behind in her writing and believes it is because she has been taught to memorise words rather than work them out phonetically. She does know the sounds of the letters, but I know we need to do more work on that and practice building words now like sat, cat, bat, etc.
I’m interested in opinions on the way they teach literacy. She says they DON’T teach reading. Instead they teach phonics, and they focuses on getting the kids to write. They will draw a picture and say “ok, now write about what you have drawn.” My daughter will say “I dont’ know how” because of course she doesn’t know how! (she can write a few letters), whereas the other kids just either do scribbles or write whatever letters they know. The teacher reckons in time as they get good at their phonics, they will just naturally start to from real words (not with correct spelling) and then once they get to a certain point with their reading, they give them a book and the child will be able to read it without having been taught how to read.
I saw examples of the other childrens’ work so I believe it works, however I don’t want to give up on the progress we have made so far with her reading. I also don’t want her to have problems at school/kindy because of how I’m teaching her at home.
I guess this boils down to the phonics/whole word debate, but with the writing aspect brought into it. Just after anyone’s ideas - if your child has learnt to read and write this way. Or if your child had trouble learning to write after being taught whole words first. The teacher is concerned she won’t try to write a word if she doesn’t already know how to spell it but I can understand my daughter saying she doesn’t know how to if she doesn’t even know how to write the letters first.
This sounds like a rather extreme interpretation of that teaching technique. It is usually used as one of a few or many strategies…
Anyway some tips for you to think over
First up have a chat with your daughter and explain to her that since mummy didn’t yet teach her how to write it is perfectly OK for her not to know how to do it. It is also OK for her to try and it’s perfectly Ok to make lots and lots of mistakes while she learns. Sometimes kids and adults need to be told it doesnt have to be perfect to be wonderful :yes:
Then try these two things together. She needs to learn to draw the letters and use the phonics she has got and develop it further. I would recommend starting with a few simple words she already knows. Cat, jump, sit…make sure it’s simple phonics. Help her sound out and write the words on a whiteboard. ( I say whiteboard because it is resistance free and easy, otherwise use texta and paper) you demonstrate how to do it and let her help as much as she can. Then have her try and praise every little step. Even if the word is spelt wrong if the phonics make sence then it is right!
Nee1 posted this great list of phonics based words http://www.donpotter.net/PDF/Remedial%20Reading%20Drills%20-%20Margin.pdf
You could work through them in both reading and writing. Being sure to actually break up the sounds while reading and while she reads you can write the letters to match the sounds then swap roles.
If she doesn’t learn this skill she will struggle to go beyond grade 1 reading and will slip backwards if she stops practicing ( sickness, holidays…) so it’s important to do a few sounds regularly. Writing she will pick up quickly if she is attending school and has reasonable fine motor skills. .
Finally to ensure her self confidence you could have her draw some pictures at home and help her lablel them.
It’s a very common problem and not just with children taught to read early. Lots of kids learn their sight words faster than they learn their phonics- mine included!
At 3.5 years of age you can teach her phonics as well and as she advances into more difficult readers she probably could do with some phonics. However your daughter is in the same school as these other children and so is ALSO learning what they are learning - are they expecting her to be more advanced with the writing simply because her reading is advanced - how are the other 3.5 year olds doing.
Writing can take a while to develop. My 4.5 year old is still battling and has only just started yet is reading at a third grade level - there is no way she can write at a third grade level -she is writing at the level of a 4.5 year old.
I do not believe that phonics influences writing - writing is a separate skill and at 3.5 years old it is related to fine motor control and has to do with letter formation and letter formation has nothing to do with phonics. Phonics may at some stage influence spelling which can also influence “creative writing” although I read an article the other day that said that about 70% of people are visual and not phonetic spellers which I thought was interesting.
I would continue to teach her to read by both sight and perhaps start a phonics programme - children who are already reading often get through the phonics at a much faster rate anyway as you can teach the phonics concept in words they already know how to read. Then I would get her onto pre writing exercise - drawing shapes and straight lines and zig zags and also “writing in the air” - where you teach the letter formation in the air very big.
Don’t worry - the school seems to have some weird ideas as writing and reading are linked to some extent but not at the age of 3.5 years!
Hi Fludo! I agree that reading and writing at this stage are two VERY different things. My daughter (3.5yrs old) who’s been reading phonetically since she’s 15-months old is struggling to write. This is because she has little practice in developing fine motor skills when she was younger. Though we tried activities to hone this skill, her attitude gets in the way (she gets excited easily and would mess-up blocks instead of building them). I also know of a two-year old who can write her name but cannot sight-read nor sound-out words.
With regard to phonics, we have found these resources helpful. She began reading phonetically in just days after watching though I cannot be sure if she figured-out phonics on her own or with LR pattern phonics earlier.
It sounds like a badly mis-implemented Montessori method to me. Montessori schools do teach writing before reading and they teach phonic sounds before letter names, but not like that at all! I actually wouldn’t call it writing but rather words forming, but regardless, they don’t draw pictures and tell kids to guess how to write the word the picture represents.
There are several stages in learning to write in Montessori, and one of materials they use are sandpaper letters that kids trace (knock off Montessori-like ones can be had at Amazon for $17). They may be helpful to you guys. The knock off ones from Didax on the said Amazon actually have arrows on them to show how to write the letters correctly and because they are made of sandpaper, it’s sensorial experience for children that helps them learn. The kids trace the letters with their hands after a teacher shows them, usually two different looking ones at a time, e.g “a” and “t”.
The more I think about it, the more it all sounds a bit odd! The other children are not being shown words at all just letters and how to sound them out. Then they are supposed to try and write words down how they sound, without ever having seen the words written down before. I understand the reasoning, but seems like making things harder for me. The teacher says if they’ve seen the words written before, they will be worried they are not spelling them right. Actually, I must point out, she told me if my daughter was doing ok with her writing and not worried about making mistakes, then she wouldn’t have said anything about me teaching her sight words. I personally think the 2 issues are that a) she needs to learn it’s ok to make a mistake, and b) she needs to start learning to blend sounds. But I’m still going to do that by using letters on the fridge and by me writing them, while at other times doing activities to help her draw the letters. Then when she can actually draw some letters I’ll get her to try writing the words - I liked the idea someone had of us taking it in turns to sound out the words and write them down.
But until she can write letters, I see it as quite pointless to say to her “write this word” - of course she will say “I can’t”. The teacher doesn’t ask her to write particular words, but to write down a story to go with the picture she has drawn. Maybe she’s just not good with the whole imaginative thing. The other kids seem happy to just do their dawdles “pretend writing” - but my daughter wants to do real writing if she’s supposed to be writing. I can understand that. I don’t think her writing will improve by me saying “go write a story”.
I’m also giving her lots of fine motor activities. The teacher said threading and sewing activities are great so we got some of those sewing boards.
I don’t know how the other kids her age are doing. I’ll have to ask next time I go, or actually I might just have a look at their work on the wall first. I know how old some of the kids are so that will give me an idea.
Another question - do you think it’s good to have her tracing letters, or to do it on blank paper / blackboard?
Both tracing and writing are good. Since she already reads a little you may not need to trace so many BUT as she is only 3 I would recommend a fair bit of tracing the letters as well as tracing lines of various shapes and patterns. It helps build up her pencil control and finger strength. Only you can judge that one. If she is capable of writing a fairly legible letter then let her write it rather than trace it. If she still needs the support of copying then let her trace.
When I wrote my reply I didn’t realize she was three…it means you will be having more turns at it then she will while you learn the phonics blending. lol And that their expectations at school are unrealistic. She can write ( physically capable) but just because she can read doesn’t man she should already know how to!!! None of my kids can write as well/high as they can read! Nor should we expect them to! If you do a little writing practice daily you will notice improvements fairly quickly.
Thanks mandabplus3! I’ll get her some tracing books / worksheets to get started on. We had a lovely phonics session today with the fridge magnets - already showing improvements with the sounding out after only 2 days! I think we’re on the right track!
The reason I am anti tracing letters is that many parents do not have the time to watch the tracing and too much is left to the child who then learns to form the letters incorrectly. When actually teaching letter formation without tracing they tend to listen better and write the letter with correct strokes. Once they can do this the tracing worksheets would be great as then they can practice the letter formation they already know and do it more neatly than they could manage by themselves. If you are letting your child form letters without tracing then expect it to be messier and work more on knowing which stroke to make first and allow them to do it really big - the bigger the better.
You may find the reading is stopping her doing “pretend writing” simply because she knows that words have a particular shape and say something. I do not see this as a problem - they will simply take off faster when they do know how to form letters correctly. Maybe start by teaching her to write her name.
Thanks Tanikit. You make a good point about the tracing. she does know how to write her name (it’s only 4 letters!) but sometimes gets the s backwards. I agree with you about the pretend writing. In some ways I’m “proud” that she doesn’t want to do pretend writing, that she wants to do it properly. So I’m going to focus on teaching her to write letters, but not push her, only when she’s ready, along with the phonics work and then I think as that all comes together she will really fly
I would bet that the other kids are doing far less than your daughter. I think the teacher is just feeling threatened by your teaching skills as evidenced by your daughter’s early reading. Your daughter will start to write words by herself. It is just a natural progression of her advanced skills. Unlike the other kids she will figure it out intellectually and will internalize it so she can apply it independently. Those other kids are just “drawing” letters. I bet they are learning to draw shapes too - square, circle, triangle. Don’t let the teacher discourage you at all. You have given your daughter the greatest gift - an early education. Unfortuntely some teachers are less open to new ideas regarding early eduction than the general public. If you want to help your daughter develop her fine motor skills - that’s great - but don’t do it in fear. Instead I think you should just continue with your lessons however you like to do them. After all you have done a great job.
Oh I forgot that you wanted to know how other early readers developed writing skills. My daughter sounds similar to yours. She read her first sight word at 23 months and was reading easy readers independently by at least 3.5 yrs old. At around 3 yrs old, I threw in some phonics using word tiles. She also liked to play on starfall all by herself. The phonics work didn’t go on very long because she was in a strong willed independent phase. In spite of it all, she somehow figured out basic phonics. I think she is reading on about a third grade level now at age 4 yrs 10 months. She writes simple words by herself as a play activity. My daughter also like to write imaginary words spelled phonetically correct. If asked she will pronounce it but admit that it isn’t a real word. If she wants to write a sentence she asks for help. I haven’t done anything to encourage writing beyond teaching how to write her letters. She just thinks it is fun to write words and secret messages on paper. So I believe that your daughter will joyfully progress to writing without any stress or problems when she is ready. Just keep doing whatever you feel is best. In comparison to her school mates, she will eventually excel at writing as she has in reading.
Thank you so much Akalori. You’re right, I had a look at the other kids’ writing. Apart from 2 who are a few years older, the others, when asked to write about what they have drawn are just drawing random letters that they know how to write. I don’t see how that will help develop reading skills. I think if I were to wait until she could physically write everything I would be holding her back.
We have done lots of phonics the last week and she’s made so much progress. She loves just doing it in teh mornings in bed. I say a 3 letters word, and she tells me what the first, middle and last letters are. Then sometimes we do the letters on the fridge and sometimes we write it down and I write the letters she can’t write. We also have started learning to write some more letters so she improves in that area too.
I came home from that talk with the teacher feeling like I had been “hurting” my child by teaching her wrong, but now I just think her way probably works too but I believe my way will also work, because I can SEE it working! I’m thinking, just you wait until another 6-12 months and let’s see what she can read and write! I just hope the teacher doesn’t take all the credit! lol
Oh wow! That’s exciting!!! woohoo! She’s only been at preschool for about 3-4 months and I really do love it there (and so does she!) and they do heaps of early learning stuff, BUT I’m already learning that I’m really the one responsible for ensuring my child’s education. I’ve been worried about if she’ll be extended once she’s in school, but I realise now that even if they don’t, there is nothing stopping me from keeping on extending her myself at home. We will be putting a lot of time into choosing a school for her though when the time comes!
Reading is certainly as important as writing. I’m with you Fludo. You are right not giving up the reading progress. About writing, you can have a try with beestar. My daughter as been using its vocabulary program, full of vivid pictures and interesting stories. It’s very helpful for kids. Your kid will definitely learns quickly. Good luck!
Lisa
