I just wanted to share our experience from my blog with potty training if anyone else happens to be in this same season too and wants to hear a little about the potty training in a day method. http://making-today-beautiful.com/2012/10/17/potty-training-in-a-day/
Elizabeth
Thanks for sharing! How old is your son?
For general discussion for everyone - how old are / was your child(ren) when they were ready for āpotty training?ā
Thank you. I have been only half way trying with my son and therefor have made almost no progress. But, I think this is great motivation. He just turned 2 and I definitely do not want him in diapers at three like I see so many other kids. I think it just gets harder as they get older, plus who wants to change diapers that long?
We did EC when he was a baby (also part time) and we stopped for a bit when we went on vacation and it never happened again. ERR! So frustrating because I know it is my fault for thinking we could leave it for a bit and pick it up where we left off. Not the case!
When they have an accident how do you run back and forth 10 times? That is for the kid too not just the doll? Do they actually sit on the potty each time and get right back up and run back over to the accident?
Thanks for the inspiration. I know it is time for us to tackle this!
mybabyian,
The entire concept is in the book āToilet Training in Less than a Dayā by Azrin and Foxx. Very popular potty training book with 478 reviews on Amazon. Here is the amazon.com link http://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Training-Less-Than-Day/dp/0671693808/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350675713&sr=1-1&keywords=toilet+training+in+less+than+a+day. Iāve read several potty training books, and Iāve never seen one with so many reviews. So there must be something in the method. The whole detail is in the book, you can get it from the library or buy it used from amazon. I recently got it based on reviews from several authors, and itās quite a good technique. The authors even published an article on it, titled `Dry pants - a rapid method of toilet training childrenā. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796773901022. The abstract of the paper is the link, and it can give you a feel for the method. I wish I could get access to the entire article. Iāve gotten the book, but I would have loved to read the article too as the abstract sounds very interesting.
EDIT: You can preview several pages of the book here- http://books.simonandschuster.com/Toilet-Training-in-Less-Than-a-Day/Nathan-Azrin/9780671693800. Just click the ābrowse insideā button by the left hand side, and it takes you straight to several pages of the book.
Thanks nee1 I am definitely going to check it out. We are going to do this! :yes:
We never used diapers with baby #1 ā she used potty from birth
Baby # 2 was very keen to use potty from the start as well and did great, my hubby sometimes would be too busy to hear, as I was not always with both babies So he ended up using cloth diapers off and on, but definitely was very determined to make sure we put him on the potty ever since he was able to verbally ask ( about 8 months), before that he used sign language
One thing I learned ā re-training from diapers to potty, is way more confusing for a child then just following their natural instinct to be clean and ādo their businessā on the potty from the very start :yes:
EducatingGirly my son is two years and nine months. He showed much resistance when I first put him on the potty around his second birthday. I think it was best for me to not push him too hard and allow him to mature a bit. He was still very much a baby at two. Once I saw he was interested in sitting on the potty about two months ago, I took action and went with the potty training in a day method. I didnāt want to miss my opportunity 
Mybabyian, I so understand the difficulty of potty training. I had read an article about the best age to start potty training was between 2 and 2 1/2, which was when we began. I am glad I waited as long as I did, because I donāt think it would have gone as well for us. He matured just enough to understand. When you show the child the doll having an accident and running from the potty to the accident, you are showing them that anywhere else other than the potty is not okay and to quickly run back to the potty! So after they have seen it happen with the doll, they understand and begin to recognize that its bad to go anywhere but the potty. I only had to do this a few times with Winston. Now I still have to remind him to go potty. He doesnāt always tell me when he has to go. If I donāt take him to the potty, he will 50% of the time have a wet spot. This method is wonderful for the fact that you are not confusing your child by going back and forth to diapers. I really liked that part of it! And I encourage you to read the article I linked on my blog. The author explains it in much greater detail than I do and was the one that introduced me to this idea. You are so brave to do the EC method!! I donāt know if I could have done it at all lol! I hope you have great success with this!
Nee1, thank you for your links and helpful information! I didnāt even know there was a book about it Many blessings to youā¦
Skylark, I think you both are so smart to do what you did! That is wonderful
I agree, Skylark. Iād been putting my kid on the potty at target times before he turned 1, and heās completely used to sitting on the potty and doing his business there. He doesnāt initiate yet (heās 15 months), hence I was looking for other methods that would get him to initiate. Our challenge now is getting him to tell me, or sign, or initiate going by himself, hence I intend to use the Azrin and Foxxās `Potty Training in Less than a Dayā method with him once he turns 18 months or even before, depending on how he does in the meantime. Weāll see how it goes. Iām already doing a simplified version of the method, like introducing the words āwetā and ādryā, and other things that the book recommends, though not in full scale yet. I do not expect that it will be a big deal for him when I go full scale with the strategy, being that heās already used to sitting on the potty to do his business. With our next kid, it will be potty from birth.
If anyone has a strategy to enable me help him to initiate, Iāll be very happy to hear it. Skylark, your kid started initiating at 8 months, do you have any ideas for me, apart from consistent signing when heās on the potty? Thank you.
We are trying this today and so far we had one accident at the very beginning. Now he has used the potty 4 times in a row!!! I am amazed. I was a little bit skeptical but so far it is working. I am a little nervous about nap time and bed time, but I think we will just go for it. Thanks so much for your post. It really helped me to get the courage to tackle this and to know how to do it! :yes:
Nee1,
I think you are doing great!!
My boy initiated not at 8 months but at about 5 days old, similarly to my oldest girl ( with her we realized that she was communicating with us a bit later, may be at 9 days old, simply because we had no clue it was even possible)
We communicated with them from birth, watching them and trying to respond to their needs so they do not give up on trying to express them in any way they can.
With our first girl, since birth ( well more correct since about 4-5 days, when she figured out connection between causes and consequences ā like āpeeing makes it wet and uncomfortableā, āgoing poop in the pants makes for an auchie bottomā :yes: or something like this ) she would start shifting and trying to catch our gaze before she would go in her pants. If for some reason we were not paying attention she would vocalize ( but that was not that often, she was all the time with either me or daddy, most of the time we were wearing her, so she developed security and confidence in being able to communicate and get our attention pretty much straight from birth). In which case we would give her a squeeze/cuddle tell her what a good communicator she was and put her on the potty ( in the first month you REALLY have to support them, as they can not support themselves, so that provided for some real good quality time face to face as well, she loved her potty times!!)
With our second boy, he communicated in a similar manner from birth as well. He also did not use diapers till about 1.5 months, then I had a serious complications with my abdominal muscles, which left my husband to take care of both of them (they are only 18 months apart), while doing his work as well ( I was supposed to be on complete bed rest, and no picking up the baby) At which time, he was forced to put cloth diapers on the little one, as sometimes he was not able to take care of work, catch the older sister ( or help her to go on the potty, ā she would not use diapers ever, she thinks it is āyakieā), and while our little boy did communicate, he just had to use diapers off and on at that time.
Why I mentioned 8 months in an original post is because at that age he was already walking and was able to say certain words ( which were important to him), so when he needed to go throughout the day, for about 70% ( even in case me or dad were not paying much attention) he would just come to us and insist that we would hear what he needs :yes: However, because we somewhat ātrainedā him to use diapers, he was not completely diaper free till about 12-14 months, and we were using our cloth diapers off and on for him.
Also I heard that ( apart from being way healthier and safer for the babies) cloth diapers make it easier with āun-trainingā babies from using diapers, as there is distinct wetness/dryness feeling, as opposed to synthetic disposables, which are so full of absorbing jello chemicals that baby can be in it for a day literally without feeling whether it is wet or dryā¦
So I do not have much experience with āpotty trainingā as we have never done that really, and very little with āun-trainingā to use diapersā¦ One thing I can suggest is to let the baby to be diaperless, when you can, as it makes it easier for him to get to the potty and use it without extra fuss or wait, as sometimes he might need to go āright awayā and taking the time to take off the diaper, clothes, etc, might be just too long of a waitā¦
"You are so brave to do the EC method!! I donāt know if I could have done it at all ! I hope you have great success with this! "
Funny, ECing was so-o easy and clean, I have a hard time imagining dealing with poopy and pee-pee diapers and clothes, now that is brave! lol Also we are out a lot with the kids throughout the week, driving, visiting, going to theaters, museums, we hardly ever have a few days in a row when we are home, so I think it would have been so difficult if we would have been bound to using diapersā¦
I actually just talked with parents of a very large family ( they have 14 children), and they had 2 kids that they used diapers with, something interesting that they have mentioned ā it was very difficult to āretrainā the babies that used the diapers to use potty afterwards, and yes, it did take them more tries and errors with those two, as it was seemingly too traumatic for them, they had to start and stop and wait till they āwere readyā, because it is a HUGE change for them. In those cases, they said, they kinda had to wait till kiddos were older, because they had to explain to them and really work on it. So I guess that explains why so many people had to wait till their kids are 2, 3, 4 before doing potty training and it also explains why there are so many books and methods out thereā¦
You kind of need to see what will work, and not push too hard and be sensitive and find the best approach. I think pushing in that situation would only make the child more resistant to the change, so you would need to do it with lots of sensitivity, love and encouragement
Thanks a lot, Skylark. I appreciate the explanation.
I think Iāve figured out why heās not yet initiating - I think it was because I started out late, though before he turned a year old. In Ć¢ā¬ĖEarly Start Potty Training,Ć¢ā¬ā¢ by Linda Sonna, the author explains that kids whose parents started out at birth or at a few weeks old, start gesturing very early when they want to eliminate, some at 5 months of age (and I now understand why your kid initiated so early). And further, if their parents are consistent, such kids complete training much earlier, most accomplishing bowel control by 12 months, compared to late starters like myself. I did feel a bit sad when I read that, now learning that if I had started much earlier, he would have been initiating by now. Anyway, Iāve learnt from my mistakes, and with the next kid, weāll start very early.
And on the whole idea of potty training āreadinessā, Linda Sonna debunks the whole theory in āEarly Start Potty Trainingā. The myth of readiness, was propounded in the 1960s by Barry Brazelton, a professor of Pediatrics who had links with Proctor and Gamble (the manufacturer of Pampers), and was once in charge of the Pampers Institute. It would be better for their corporate buttom line if parents were encouraged to keep their kids in disposables as long as possible, and Brazelton propounded the āreadinessā theory, a concept unknown in several other cultures. With the advent of washing machines, coupled with the theory of Ć¢ā¬ĖreadinessĆ¢ā¬ā¢, parents lost the motivation to start training early. Unfortunately, the American Association of Paediatricians had incorporated Brazeltonās āreadinessā approach into their guidelines, and the age for potty training completion increased, from 12 - 18 months in the 1950ās, to 36 - 39 months in this era. Before Brazelton, parents were completing day and night training by at most 18 months, and this is still the case in many non-western cultures, where kids are expected to be dry by at least 12 months. Anyway, Linda Sonna is not the first to say this about the 'readinessĆ¢ā¬ā¢ myth, I read a similar thing in āDiaper Free Before 3ā by Jill Lekovic, a paediatrician, who got all her kids trained very early. Both authors did the research; they cited a lot of papers, comparing toilet training norms in different eras and in different cultures. Here is a link from SonnaĆ¢ā¬ā¢s website titled Ć¢ā¬ĖThe truth about potty training readinessĆ¢ā¬ā¢- http://www.drsonna.org/ptresources.htm#The Truth About Potty Training Readiness
You are right about the re-training of a child whoās been trained to go in diapers all his life, and all of a sudden, the parents shift gears and demand he goes in the potty. A bit confusing for the child, because as they say, old habits are hard to break. āEarly Start Potty Trainingā said something along those lines too - that newborn infants do give signs when they want to eliminate, and if the parents ignore those signs, the infant stops communicating by the time he is 4-5 months, and becomes habituated to eliminating in the diaper. He loses the sense of wetness he was born with, and will then have to be retrained to give the signs later in life. I think that was the case with me; I wish I had known about all these earlier, weāve have made more progress by now. Iāll keep on with the signing when he eliminates, and Iāve really hammed up the training.
Heās in cloth underwear, as I read in Sonnaās book that kids in cloth finish training a year ahead of kids in disposables. She explains that cloth enables the child to feel wet making him/her want to be changed or potty trained, compared to disposables, which whisk moisture off the body so the child does not even know he/she eliminated. So you are right there.
And she also makes the case for letting the child be bare-buttomed, as it enables the child understand that pee and poop come from his/her body. According to her, a child in diapers 24/7 may not even know that pee and poop come from their own bodies. So again, you are very right there. I do give him bare-bottom time, and when he is not bare-buttomed, he will be in his loose cloth underwear, which I change when wet, so he does not get accustomed to wet underwear (another idea from the book). Iāve read that bare-buttom does accelerate potty training, but since the whole house (except the kitchen) is carpeted, the bare-buttom time is limited to when we are in the kitchen. Do you have any suggestions on there?
Makes sense Nee1. Potty readiness just doesnāt pass the empirical evidence test. I found your post enlightening, especially considering the shift in norms over a relatively short period of time. Itās too bad that we (as a people, society, etc) are so myopic that we didnāt see ourselves moving backwards and start asking, āwhy are we going backwards? what has recently changed?āā¦ and funny, we (again as a society) donāt ask these things NOW in other areas.
Iāll give you an example. Last night before going out to dinner with the family, we put Cub (just turned 4 months) onto his potty as a preventative measure. His grandmother and great aunt were in the room. He didnāt want to do anything until I requested it. Then he did it. I then requested that he do it again since he has āmoreā - he did it again. Great Aunt makes some comment about farmers doing this for centuries and thatās how it worked all the time (Iām thinking, huh?.. if you knew that, why didnāt you do it with your own kids?)ā¦ Grandma later tells me āI thought HE was going to be the one teaching you since you had all these plans figured out, but I was wrong. Iām amazed at how I was wrongā I simply say with a grin, āyou should know that I do my homework. Besides, we teach and learn from each otherā. This episode followed another a few days ago at grandmaās house where I took him into the regular bathroom and put him on the regular toilet and got him to eliminate. Needless to say, her jaw dropped. Kidās only 4 months old.
My advice is like what you said, start early. I waited too long at 3 weeks old.
My thirteen month old signed his first sign the other day out of the blue without anyone signing it first, and it was the sign for potty. He then ran to the bathroom door. I pulled his diaper off, but it was already warm with pee. He has done this twice, and I am thinking that I need to just end the diapers this weekend. I will have to stop dropping him off at the gymās day care for awhile though which means no work out for mommy. That is the hardest part. People donāt jump on board when you potty train this early. Its generally why I quit early potty training every time with every kid. By age 2, they have it, but before than, its all hit and miss in my house because of the lack of consistency. Mostly miss too.
Cokers,
In my experience, older babies do have a pattern to their elimination (especially poop). When I first started with my kid, it was mostly hit and miss. I read āThe Baby Whisperer Solves all Your Problemsā by Tracy Hogg, and I found some of the answers I was looking for. Tracy Hoggās book is mostly about training babies to sleep, but she does have a chapter on early potty training. She recommends parents start at 9 months (or whenever the child can sit up), and though 9 months is quite late for potty training (in my opinion), I did get some ideas from the book.
So she has this E.E.A.S.Y routine, where the first E represents Elimination. So baby wakes up in the morning, and first thing, you take baby out of crib, straight onto the potty. You donāt ask āDo you want to go potty?ā you just do it. In my experience, this works, as Iāve noticed that even as an adult, I tend to run to the toilet once I awake.
Second E is for Eating (i.e., breakfast). Once baby eats breakfast (which of course will entail drinking water), 15 minutes after eating, put baby again on potty (Elimination E. again). She gave a different number of minutes for babies from 16 months old (10 minutes, I think). Iāve found the number of minutes may vary from kid to kid, mine pees immediately after eating, so I put him there immediately after meals and I do not wait for the 10-15 minutes interval Tracy suggests. The A. is for activity (or baby playtime) , the S. is for baby sleep, and the Y. is you time for the parent.
Anyway, baby naps, and once he wakes up, put him on the potty. Put him again after lunch. Put him again after dinner.
So in summary, you put the child on the potty
Iāve found this works very well, it took the guesswork out of the whole procedure, and weāve had lots of successes, especially with catching poop. This will work well if the child eats at predictable times during the day, and is not snacking and sipping throughout the day. My kid learnt to consolidate his poop patterns to when he would be placed on the potty. In `Diaper Free before 3ā, Dr Lekovic also mentions putting the kid on the potty just before bedtime, and during each diaper change, as the kid may not have finished eliminating.
So in summary, Iāve found there are predictable times when you are more likely to have success, such as when the kid wakes up from sleep and after meals. If someone else is caring for the child during those times, you can simply tell the person to put the child on the potty during those times. My DH does it for me when Iām not there, I simply tell him the predictable times, and heās had lots of successes too.
PokerDad,
On the whole āreadinessā theory, Iāve pondered it a lot after reading Linda Sonnaās āEarly Start Potty Trainingā book. Here is an excerpt from the bookās foreword, written by pediatrician Barbara Gablehouse. You can preview the whole foreword on Amazon.com. Anyway, Dr Gablehouse says:
``What if toilet training was just another skill that infant learned? What if we thought of it like learning that the tub was for bathing, that the high chair was for eating, and the car seat was for travelling? We donāt wait until our children ask or give clues that they are ready for a bath or for a ride in the car. We teach them that these activities, which are a part of everyoneās daily life, occur in a specific place. We donāt make a big deal out of these places: tubs, car seats, highchairs. Why in the world do we make such a big deal about using the toilet? Why do we wait until the more difficult toddler years, when our children prefer familiar routines, familiar foods, familiar people, familiar places, to introduce a new activity - using the toilet? Why do we force our infants to learn to tolerate being wrapped in their own body waste? Not even our hamsters, puppies, or kittens tolerate that!
What if toilet training was approached as a skill, like rolling over, and walking? We can give our babies opportunities to practice toilet sitting, just like tummy time to practice rolling over or the floor time to practice crawling. The physiologic ability to begin to control the muscle involved in controlling urination and bowel movements should occur around five to nine months, around the time the baby can sit unsupportied. After that, itās just a matter of perfecting the new skill, which just takes a lot of practice. It is not magic, itās not psychology, and itās not a trick. Itās just a motor skill that your baby needs to have an opportunity to practiceā.ā QUOTE ENDS.
Iāve pondered the above quote for a long time. I give my kid a bath each night; I donāt wait for `bath taking readinessā. I brush his teeth (though he does not like it), I donāt wait for āteeth-brushing readinessā. I bet if there was a company trying to sell me something involved with dental care (like Proctor and Gamble wanted more sales of their products), they would tell me to wait for āteeth-brushing readinessā; that I would scar my kid for life by doing it early, and that he would regress in his ability to brush his teeth later on in the future. Is that not what the toilet readiness āexpertsā say? - that by putting your kid on the potty when he is young, he would regress in his abilities later on, and you would have scarred him for life by putting him there before he exhibited āreadinessā. Oh well. So much for the concept of Brazeltonās āreadinessā.
Excellent Nee.
Cub just turned 4 months (not 5 months like the quote says) and I can tell you that heās already developed some control over those muscles that control bowel movements (as my stories ought to indicate). When he wants to try, he knows how. The peeing is a bit more unconscious at this point though. I think itās a bit more subtle of an elimination.
So in summary, you put the child on the potty 1) Immediately he wakes up from sleep (in the morning and after naps) 2) After each meal
This is pretty much what Iāve been doing from day 1 week 3 (plus whenever I do a diaper change in general). Though on #2, I canāt always wait until after the meal because frequently it comes during the meal (thus we were feeding and potting simultaneously a lot there for about 2 months), but even with this Iām noticing that I can sometimes feed him and THEN hit the potty and heāll have it all waiting to come out (LOL) - so in respects, heās learning how to sort of hold it (though āholding itā is not an EC concept at all, EC means you indicate that you need to go and then go where youāre supposed toā¦ the opposite of holding it). Iām making no distinction between holding it and purposely going when cued or asked.
Very interesting insight, Nee1, loved reading the excerpts you have quoted.
As far as ability to control those muscles ā here is an interesting piece of information.
When he had our first girl we lived in LA, infamous for its traffic. And I had to commute quite a bit due to attending number of births. Since my baby was nursing exclusively she commuted with me ā to prenatal appoitments, checking on the newborn babies and even to births :yes:
Since she was not using diapers ( and using her miniature potty from day 14) I had to stop to put her on the potty when she needed to. Sometimes in LA traffic, just to get off the freeway at the closest exit in a rush hour can take quite a few minutes. A number of times, it was a bit of a wait. I would usually talk to her, saying that I heard her and we are getting off, and she should not feel bad if she can not wait. She would wait in most cases!
Pretty unbelievable one can say, especially according to all the books on potty readiness and āability to control those musclesā :yes:
I think babies are capable of so much more then we can imagine, and they are eager to communicate and show it off. But also I think it is important to realize that sometimes they would not do things just because, for no apparent reason, but simply because they are stubborn, or want to make sure it was theor idea, or what not.
My second one for example ā he is VERY bright 2.3 years old. He speaks eloquently, knows his geometrical shapes, numbers, letters, words. But something happened somewhere sometime about the colors. I think my mom was trying to āshow him offā at about 1.4 years old, when we had visitors over. Asking him over and over again different colors. Ever since, whenever he is asked colors, he is reacting to it as if he is tested and purposely tells the most remote color to the one he is asked about āgreenā or āblueā when he is asked about smth pink, etc He knows them, but he is simply determined to say different color :nowink:
Sometimes I wonder if our toddlers take a stand like that on the issues that are so important for us, parents. Potty training included. They are little people with their own reasoning and desire to do it, they love to be praised but they may be annoyed if we constantly expect something from them, and get disappointed if they dont āperformā
Just an observationā¦
Potty training is very much necessary to learn for small kids. You can use a potty training toys for your baby to sit on it at the time of potty so baby is habituated to sit on potty seat always.