I received this week an abacus and start reading more about it. I would like to teach my 4 yr (almost 5) grandson.
I am afraid that it will create some dependency on it and will not be able to do the math wihout it. I am consious that kids start adition with their fingers but they are available at all times.
Are there any kids using it? Any tips?
Thanks.
I start veiwing the youtube videos on abacus addition and subtraction but i am not convinced if this can be taught at such an early age as 4 years old.
So far what i have seen is that you need to work a lot on complements of 10 and of 5 in order to do the math.
Are any of your kids working with abacus ? If so, what age are they and when did they started.
Please i would appreciate if you can share your experience?
Hi,
I’m a Soroban (Japanese Abacus) teacher in NY and I routinely work with 4 yr olds.
I also started learning when I was 4 as did my 3 brothers.
To give you my honest opinion its been very helpful for me in my academic career. I basically knew everything in 4th grade by the time I was in 2nd grade and I always had an easy time understanding “higher” math up to calculus (which was the last real math course I took)
The only caveats I would have is that every child is different and just because some kids can start at 4 and develop rapidly, doesn’t mean that your grandson will do the same. Its much more important to continue practicing for a long period of time if you want him to develop math as a skill.
So, if its possible I would highly recommend a real teacher in a class setting if possible. The healthy peer pressure from other kids combined with a teacher who knows what he or she is doing (I would avoid franchises) can produce good results.
Finally in response to your other question about mental math: If the program concentrates on developing your grandson’s calculation skills properly, he won’t be dependent on the physical abacus. In my experience the ability to do the mental math (called Anzan) will actually free his mind to think about the other aspects of the problem.
Hope this helps,
Tom
Tom,
I need you to move to my area of the woods in a few years. :biggrin:
OP,
If you can get your child to play around a little like in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap14W2mA53k
Perhaps that will help set up for when you’re ready for classes? Maybe Tom can give additional insight if such prep work would help or if it’s best to just wait for an actual instructor.
I wonder if you would be willing to host a Live Meeting, web conference, conference call, or post a youtube video and teach some of us???
Tom, thank you for your information. I will look if there are instructors in my area (Peru).
Now that they arre entering vacations will be a good time to start.
PokerDad, thanks for the video. I came across it and found it very instructive.
I came across this program out of san francisco, CA: http://www.supermath.com/introduction.htm I e-mailed the instructer and she said she is hoping to start an online class in 2012 since she has some kids moving out of state that want to continue the program. I will post an update when I hear back from her regarding official dates in case anyone else is interested.
Hi poker dad,
I really like the video, particularly how they explain the concept of breaking up the 5 stone into 5 marbles.
It’s very similar to the way I teach, and I put it in contrast to techniques like memorization where a child can answer 5-2 =3 but have no idea why.
In terms of Soroban, training “friends” (how I call the components of 5 and 10) can definitely help kids understand things much faster. The only pitfall I caution agains is learning both addition and subtraction simultaneously.
I’ve seen kids confuse 1 technique for the other as they gain speed, so I go out of my way to make sure that they get the addition really well before I move them onto subtraction.
But I think I’m getting too far into the minutia.
2010BEBES: You’re very welcome, let me know what you find out there 
LDSMom: I actually know the teacher from supermath, she’s a “genuine” Soroban teacher (not franchise) so if she gets those classes going, I think it’s worth looking into.
Also, I am working on a new video program for parents who want to teach their kids soroban. I know I said it’s not ideal, but I’m hoping it’ll help the parents that just can’t get to a class. I would really appreciate some feedback on what you’d like to get out of Soroban and any ideas you might have.
Thanks for reading my very long post.
Tom
Dear tom or others who know about Soboran teaching,
I came across www.alohama.com they seem to be the only ones here in Spain. Do you know anything about their professionality?
Thanks bb
I can’t vouch for Aloha other than to point out it is a global franchise. There was some foundation I found online that mentioned them among a few other companies; I think it was some sort of membership to a math foundation or something similar.
Tom, I have a few questions and perhaps this can help you with your endeavor. How long does it take to transition into mental math? I haven’t spent a whole lot of time working the soroban, but in practicing, I’m just working on manipulating the beads correctly (getting the correct answer). I’m no where near fast enough to consider myself fast; I’m fairly slow, and I still make mistakes.
Along those lines, no where have I found a drill sequence for working the fingers. I know that serious soroban students will have drill sequences that they work on.
Also, how does one transition into the “mental” aspect, step by step?
What type of “homework” do you assign for your students?
I’m going to second PokerDad in terms of Aloha. I only know of the franchise near my location and what I’ve been told from the students who’ve left their program to join mine. From what I know, I don’t consider the teachers I know of from their program to be “highly” qualified in terms of Soroban skill. But I know that at least in India (where the program originates from) they have some students who are highly skilled. It might be just my personal preference but if you can find an alternative teacher (someone who has spent at least a couple years training) I think you’ll be better served.
As for Mental math, its hard to give you a time frame without knowing how much you practice and how you practice. A rough guide I usually use with kids is when I feel that they’re comfortable moving the beads without having to consciously think about what they’re doing most of the time. (usually takes a 6 year old about 6 months of about 2 hours a week of training till they’re about this level, with huge variations among different kids)
I do it this way because in the initial step Anzan (mental math) is really just a mental image of the Soroban. So the better you can use a Soroban the better you’ll be able to visualize it. (Imagine walking into your house and visualizing what you see vs walking into a random grocery store and doing the same)
I usually start with very simple problems, as an adult I would recommend you do problems like 1 + 1, or 1 + 3 and to work to visualize the soroban beads moving.
But the secret that most people don’t know is that the quickest way to train your Anzan is to practice more Soroban. So even the most advanced students always practice Soroban to develop their Anzan skills and conversely the better you get at Anzan the easier Soroban gets.
As for homework, I have custom workbooks I’ve designed to teach specific skills according to my curriculum. So all the homework I assign is designed to practice and strengthen the one technique I taught the student that day. In the beginning I assign about 12 - 15 problems a day. and I would assign more or less depending on upcoming exams or if I feel that a child’s practicing inefficiently and more bad practice wouldn’t do any good.
Tom
Tom- I don’t have any franchises in my area, but is there a national or international network of registered Soroban teachers? Just so interested parents could put in their zipcode and locate a local instructor. If not, you should start one! lol I’m in Virginia Beach, if you can recommend anyone or know where to find someone, please let me know. Thanks!
PokerDad > Thanks for the videos! Perfect for my children.
Soroban > I am very interested in your videos. I used Doman Math and Little Math with the girls when they were younger, and they now attend a Montessori pre-school. I am learning how to use the abacus from an Egyptian colleague of my husband, although I don’t know his background with it.
I also just bought this package A:
http://www.nurtureminds.com/online-store.htm
because I liked the visuals in the books, and it seems as though I can teach it at home to my children:
http://www.nurtureminds.com/download.htm
I also just bought these abaci because I like the Mr. Abraham’s videos (and website: http://www.visual-soroban.org/ ) that breaks it down step by step, and the children’s abaci seem easier to use for the younger children, than beginning with a standard abacus, which is a little intimidating:
Pacchi Wood Beginner Abacus - Tomoe Soroban
http://kidenergy.com/27-pacchi.html
Wood Educational Abacus - Tomoe Soroban
http://kidenergy.com/27-us100.html
What else do you recommend for parents at home with little or no training, and no teachers available in their area?
Thank you.
~ Ayesha
Soroban,
We were excited to receive our abaci today, :yes: ; and I have not yet received the package from nutureminds.com .
What do you recommend that I do with the girls? I had them count to 50 on the small (red, yellow, and green) abacus.
Thanks.
Ayesha
Ive been using abacusmaster tutorial for my daughter for almost 2 months now…its very good… I’m very happy with the support they give… no delays and they always respond… its very hard to get good service nowadays…
I’m also planning to start an abacus center using abacusmaster… they have even agreed to give me complete training free.
Regards,
Irene
http://www.abacusmaster.com/ looks interesting.
I think software is great for learning, and I want to try the trial version of the software “Show Me Soroban” from http://www.senapps.com/ , but it seems I have to receive a registration key that I have emailed them for.
Although for me personally, I wanted the workbooks for my children to sit down at the table. We just received our curriculum from http://www.nurtureminds.com/index.htm , and I will begin to review it.
Just from glancing over it, I have the following questions that perhaps Soroban can answer or anyone who is familiar with this curriculum:
What age do we begin with? My children are 4 years 8 months, and one of my twin daughters can easily count to 100 (because she likes to practice), and the other twin daughter can count to 50 (and is learning to count to 100) on the abacus. Yet, we will begin with Year 1 book and work through it as review and refinement of the fingering techniques, and learning the other skills, as well as completing the exercises in the Year 1 Activity book. They are also learning to write, so I will make sure that they know the answers for writing “one”, “two”, etc., and they can write the words to the best of their abilities.
How many pages is a lesson?
How long (time duration) should a lesson be?
What is the frequency? or how many days per week do we teach the child/ren and how many lessons per day?
How long should it take to complete “Year 1” books, as long as we are consistent with a schedule? And Year 2?
Thanks!
2010BEBES,
If you are concerned about whether your 4-year-old can understand the concept of number bonds and use it on the abacus, I would highly recommend doing the activities demonstrated in the the video uploaded by PokerDad using a ziplock bag with 5 marbles. In the beginning, Ella also had problems doing 4+1, 4+2, etc on the abacus because the concept of number bonds was new to her, but after a couple of sessions working with marbles in a bag and a big stone, she finally got it. :laugh:
Hi Guys,
Sorry I haven’t responded in a while.
Just finished testing week in my classes and I’ve finally been able to come up for some air.
TeachingMyToddler > Unfortunately there isn’t a international or even a national registration for teachers. We’ve really dropped the ball in the profession on that one! I know it can be a minefield trying to find a “good” Soroban teacher, so I would definitely be up for any suggestions on how I might make such a list. I’m also sorry to say I don’t know anyone off hand in Virginia.
Ayesha Nicole > As of right now I don’t see a comprehensive way to learn Soroban in a easy step by step way without a teacher. It’s part of the reason I thought I could help a lot of parents by making videos that taught them how to do it. I’m still working on the videos and I’m trying to figure out what parents would really like to learn in them, so please give me some pointers!
Also I’ve never used nurture mind’s workbooks but let me try to answer some of the questions.
The golden rule I always follow when teaching is to let the student guide me in setting the pace for their learning. Some kids will “get” concepts quickly while others won’t but every student should really practice and master a skill before they move on to any other skills. It’s really hard as an adult to repeat the same lesson since it feels repetitive, but in more cases than not kids don’t feel bored by it. And they need the repetition to develop their muscle memory and other skills to be able to learn new skills on top of it. I hope that helps.
2010BEBES > Aangeles is definitely right about a 4 year old being able to understand the concept of 5’s and 10’s. I would like to throw in my 2 cents that understanding the concept isn’t the final goal of learning. This was really counter intuitive for me, but learning is more than understanding the why and how. It’s been really important for me to learn that kids don’t understand math the way I as an adult understand math. For me I can see the connection that numbers have with graphs, and shapes and how its all interconnected. But with kids they don’t have the years of schooling and experience that I do. So, their understanding of math can be more superficial, as long as it’s a solid base that they can later use to refine their understanding.
So to give you an example: a child depending on their age might understand that having 1 apple and then their mom giving them 1 more apple means that they now have 2 apples.
However, they may not understand the abstraction and make the logical conclusion that having 2 apples and giving an apple to mommy means you’ll only have 1 apple left.
The 2 “facts” may not be linked especially if they are taught in a rote memorization format.
Anyway, all I wanted to say was that you shouldn’t be worried even if it feels like your child isn’t understand all of the conceptual portions of math all at once. if you keep working on the Soroban, the patterns of bead movements will naturally develop a “sense” of how numbers are linked together, even if they can’t fully explain how.
Wow, this ended up a lot longer than I expected. Sorry for the long post (again).
Also a quick update about the video’s: I’ve posted a video of a 3 year old student in Japan who was doing multiplication. Here’s a link to the video if you want to check it out http://www.learnsoroban.com/2012/01/25/amazing/3-years-old/
Have a good one,
Tom
I think you may have just touched on something important. When I think about my time in learning math as a kid, I don’t recall ever being told specifically about number relationships (how interconnected math is). Maybe I was taught it specifically later, but early on, I don’t think so. They just gave me problems to solve. I even remember the teacher holding up flashcards for the class… the flash cards might say 7+4 or something like that. The whole class participated to recite the answer as quickly as possible.
My wife’s school teaches math completely different than how I was taught. Kids have to deconstruct a math problem into easy to solve bits. In their homework, they have to come up with at least two ways to solve a problem. The idea is to TEACH the relationship.
The outcome, frankly, is that their school is weaker than average in math.
Although I don’t know how she learned math, if you asked my wife who’s better at math me or her… she knows her times table better and faster than I do (because she teaches them everyday and I barely use them, if ever), but I can mentally calculate percentages in a moment (I use this skill in poker) and have an overall deeper understanding of math than she does, and it’s not even close.
I think perhaps there were kids that became math phobic and therefore never ever got to the point where they understood much; so some schools reverted to an inferior method to try and teach it (known as TERC)
I plan on counteracting this by making sure my child has numeracy before entering kindergarten. I discovered the soroban simply by looking around to find kids that could do math, and the kids that practice soroban are, by en large, far far superior at math than kids practicing any other sort of math learning. In other words, look at where people are getting the biggest and best results, and then figure out what they’re doing.
Now if I understand you… using and learning on the soroban did not hinder your ability to understand or solve algebra equations, geometry, trig, or calculus? Did you get decent grades in those classes, if you can remember?