Memorization method

Parenting and Education (Other) After Early Learning
41

Thanks for the update! Yes, we also can’t highlight in our books at this stage. Most of our books are from the library and I’m usually nursing the baby while reading (not to mention, my 3 year-old would want to do all the highlighting himself and may want to highlight everything…). I am looking forward to using that feature on the Kindle someday in the future though.

Maybe a well-planned summary once a week would be more practical? And if I only do it once a week, would something like a PowerPoint review be better? (Although, I can see that taking a lot of time…)

Also, all of this makes me think about I really want my child to memorize. If I’m going to spend all this time/effort trying to have him remember material, I feel like I should get my priorities straight (like for us - one example is memorizing Bible verses instead of a random fact about frogs from our recent library book). So…another idea might be only using this method for things I’m really set on my son memorizing…maybe make a list of things I think would be important and go off that (instead of our daily reading - which could be anything). In this case, it seems like he’d be using the approach to actually learn the material, instead of using it to remember what learned? Get what I’m mean? I suppose, ideally, we’d be listening to reviews of both…things from my “must memorize” list and things from our daily reading…sigh.

Similarly, I wonder how this would work for math facts. We experimented with the Educreations app (suggested by jc1) last night and I made a short little “video” of basic math problems. My son actually did the talking (reading whatever I wrote). Well, he must have watched that clip at least 10 times afterward and loved it - so it got me thinking about doing addition problems that he hasn’t mastered yet and showing the video 1 day, 1 week, etc…would this work for math?? Right now, I basically go over a math concept over and over everyday until he gets it and can say it back to me (counting by 2s for example) and then I move onto something else (counting by 5s for example). Should I be using this memorization approach instead? Or only use this memorization method after he’s totally grasped the concept? Any thoughts about math?

42

You’re right, I was just reflecting on my own experiences in school/college as I have no experience with memory techniques for young children. I think it is worth adapting these methods for non-fiction, but I’m not sure how applicatlbe they are for fiction. Another approach is to use other graphic organisers for summarising fiction - I used to use these with young children when I was a teacher, but again, this reflects my visual rather than auditory style.

It’s really interesting to hear his response to the reviews from a week ago!

43

Forgive me for not knowing this, but I can’t seem to find out where to download your “How to Remember Anything Forever”. There’s nothing to click on and no link. Please advise. Thank you in advance.

John

*Bump

44

interesting thread. it reminds me of this woman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoxsMMV538U

45

The free ebook “How to Remember Anything Forever” was too large to attach, about 10 pages. Anyone who wants it just email me at drjones@jonesgeniuses.com
and I will send you a free PDF of the booklet right away.

46

Wow! Thanks for sharing that queriquita. The famous Russian psychologist Luria wrote of a similar case in his book “The Mind of a Mnemonist”. The subject, referred to as “S” routinely remembered every detail of his life. “S” also reported being driven crazy by the obsession. He could not stop memorizing every detail. I am going to get her book “The Woman Who Can’t Forget”. What I find interesting is how they do it. “S” used mnemonics but did not seem able to edit or adapt his memorization. He would rote memorize things like 12345… which you or I would recognize at a glance as a pattern. Brain theory states that everything we see or do is recorded. It is in there. Getting it out is the problem. I feel certain that is correct. I also agree that we don’t need to be inundated with all the trivia. Have you ever googled something and gotten so much trivia but not been able to find what you were looking for. Remembering everything can make remembering any specific thing like looking for a needle in a haystack. Memory science is all about simplifying the organization of memory and maximizing the stimulation of recall. But people like Jill Price are a prefect example that a photographic memory is demonstrably possible and if properly utilized can be a very good thing.

47

New update. H. and I have been at it for a few weeks now, and we haven’t given up yet! He likes listening to the recordings, for the most part, and he does seem to get something out of them. I haven’t tested him about information in them–I guess I should. My guess is that he’ll be able to remember a lot. As to myself, I certainly do seem to remember more of what we’ve read. I’m quite glad we’ve done this. I have no doubt that we’ll emerge with a much better education if we keep this up over the long haul.

But there is no way on Earth we can continue on doing 8-12 minutes a day of these recordings, as I concluded about a week ago. So I started making more abbreviated recordings–instead of 3 minutes for a reading that took 20 minutes, 2 or 1.5. Shorter readings get just a minute. But all this still frequently adds up to 8 minutes for the day, which is too much. There are some books that are just really hard to summarize so quickly, and I indulge in 4-5 minute summaries, but I believe I’m going to set myself a rule and redo the summaries that go too long. This is for our sanity when we get around to doing our one month reviews. That’s the next big test. I’ll have to make our summaries last no more than five minutes for the whole day before then, or we’ll give up because it will take too long to listen to all the recordings.

I have tried to get H. to do summaries. I have tried to train him, give him examples, explain about the main idea, etc. We have been practicing outlining stories, and he’s not bad at doing that, with some help from me. But none of this training makes it feasible for him to do summaries on the tape recorder. If we want to listen to them, I have to do them. I expect I’ll continue to have to do them for at least a couple more years. When he starts doing more reading to himself (when I start reading more to the baby at the table instead of him–which I suspect will be reasonably soon), either he won’t do summaries of those readings, or he’ll have to learn to do them quickly and accurately (seems like a non-starter), or we’ll have to figure out something else, I don’t know what.

48

Most psychologists’ think that memories gradually decay with time as demonstrated by the psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus and that a photographic memory is a myth. Eidetic memory is the closest that we get to photographic memory and even then the vivid mental images only lasts for a few minutes before fading. Even eidetic memory can not be used to recall complex details like a page of text.

Research psychologist Gary Marcus has speculated that her unusual autobiographical memory is actually a byproduct of compulsively making journal and diary entries

This recording of Jill Price does not demonstrate that she has a photographic memory. She suffers from an obsessive compulsive disorder-she started to keep a journal at age 12 of everything that has happened to her and obsessively reviews these records.

She is, however, a good example of what can be achieved with spaced periodic review.

This is a good demonstration of Anki- free spaced repetition software. You can add images, video and audio to your cards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS9jxE_2FsY

Chris

49

Peter Wozniak

“SuperMemo”

the guy has been running an experiment on himself for 20 years using his method to retain info.

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wozniak?currentPage=all

50

To go with Chris and illudere, I have some personal experience with supermemo and in using periodic review to learn.

I would have responded sooner to the thread except something tragic happened in my life the day the thread began, and I’m just settling back in…

My first experience with SuperMemo was fairly positive, but I stopped doing it because I wanted to do the reviews on my own time not the prescribed time. Also, I didn’t always want to review things on the computer… sometimes I might be sitting around waiting for a dish to finish cooking, or just hanging out with family and there’s little dialogue, and so I thought these were good times to do reviews. Besides, limiting reviews to my time on the PC seemed sort of limiting, ha. Therefore, I wanted something physical rather than cyber. (some of these wares do allow you to print, but I haven’t tried that)

But the concept of supermemo, I thought, was powerful. The biggest change for me was in phrasing “bits of knowledge” (to borrow from Doman) as questions to be answered, instead of boring bits to be reviewed. One way seemed to engage me deeper than the other (and I’ve done the latter for decades). The first review of the new material is right at the beginning when thinking of how to phrase, word, or depict what you want to say (or question)…
It looks like DadDude is noticing this last part. It takes some thought into how to paraphrase content into something usable.

Okay, so now how I usually apply this method in my everyday life… when I first started learning poker, I would watch pro videos, but didn’t seem to be getting much out of it, especially in the moment. Then I watched a series that was difficult to follow, so I busted out the notepad and problem solved… I could now follow along by using written record to see the systematic delivery of the lecture. Except, now I had sheets and sheets of notes which were difficult to review (time consuming) AND worse than that, when I’d watch myself play on video, was horrified at how much knowledge I seemed to be forgetting in the heat of the moment.
Hmmmm.

So I turned to my old buddy, SuperMemo… except with a twist described earlier. After ever video, I would go through my notes and just pull out the top stuff (and the notes already have been filtered down once)… turn them into scenarios, sometimes with drawings! or basic questions on one side, and answers on the other. In SuperMemo, you keep it very simple, few words, simple picture with a question mark pointing to something in the picture, etc… I do this still, but now my cards (what I use instead of the virtual flash card) are more complex with a series of questions relating the same situation (something that’s perhaps germane only to poker where situations are nearly one of a kind)

I immediately noticed a huge jump in my ability while in the heat of the moment, and aside from time away doing other things (like studying Brillkids, ha ha), I’ve seen a massive leap in my understanding of the game in the last 18 months of applying this strategy. Of course, I can go DAYS without reviewing anything which would slow my progress, but that’s not really my goal anyway. If I were diligent, I’d stick with the algorithmic strategy on the PC to begin with.

So… IMO, 1. Actively listening/engaging the material (note taking) 2. Looking for biggest points of interest (reviewing notes, contemplating what you’d like to retain or what’s to be learned) 3. Phrasing top bits of info into questions/quiz and writing them on cards w/ answers on back (actually writing on 3x5 card) 4. Reviewing the questions periodically (thumbing through them to myself)

On occasion, I can go backwards and do it Jeopardy style by looking at the answers (on the flip side of the cards) and figuring out the questions. I like this, but in poker it’s a bit more difficult because the same line (answer, if you will) can be used in so many situations… still, by phrasing my questions properly, this strategy is actually effective even in the un-intended way that I use the cards. This strategy gets me to think a bit more broadly.

Of course, I typically shuffle my now multiple decks (each on a big ring) each time I’m adding new bits, and my rings are sort of chronological or filtered out by easy (learned), medium (needs less review), and hard (needs more frequent review) so that it mimics the software and keeps me from reviewing one often that’s already mastered.

Awesome strategy and practical from where I’m sitting.
But probably not ideal from a memory standpoint (there are better strategies at remembering things, generally by encoding the memory better in the first place)

EDIT: I have gotten awesome at this using books, but I’m like DadDude and hate (HATE!!!) the idea of writing in my books, so I print them and then write in the margins of the copies (or printed ebook if that’s what I’m using). I draw a star by something really poignant letting me know to make sure to turn into a card. Works awesome. How to do this with an ordinary book without wasting time scanning it in? Hmmm. Probably just have a notepad to the side as you read and then writing either the page and line number OR just paraphrasing a quick note like you’re jotting down from a lecture… either one would add to the time it takes to read the book, BUT you’d save loads of time reviewing when you review the style discussed here.

Oh, one other edit… cards are small enough to carry with me if wanted. The funnest (or funniest if you will) place I’ve reviewed my cards is at a baseball game… ha ha, boring as can be at times, so bust out the cards and feel good about myself learning as I waste time watching baseball… just as long as the relatives don’t think I’m insane (which is a fine balance at times)

Final edit: phrasing questions or bits to be remembered takes some getting used to, but soon creative new ways of using the cards begins to emerge seemingly unconsciously and that’s when the fun starts. You can come up with novel ways to question yourself which aids in deeper understanding and greater joy in using the method.

51

PokerDad, first of all, my best wishes to you regarding the “something tragic” that you mentioned.

Thanks also for your insight into periodic review. It’s all very interesting. H. is now downstairs learning musical notes using Memrise.com, which uses similar principles, I guess.

But you, like many others here, are talking about how to use memory techniques for yourself. The question in my mind is how to use it for a kid who can’t summarize things for himself…

H. and I are less than a week away from starting a monthly review, which means we’ll be sitting around listening to three sets of recordings a day. This still seems possible, because as I said I would, I’ve decreased the length of recordings. I still get lots of good info in there, but don’t ramble on and do omit more details.

In case someone is interested in technique/how-to, here are a few more notes.

I summarize only nonfiction and poetry, not fiction (except for myths, which I treat like nonfiction). We’ll read, say, 20 minutes during breakfast, and then I’ll wander away from the noisy family and take a few minutes to make the recording (often yelling to H. and others to be quiet). I don’t mark up the books, because it isn’t necessary. I keep a thumb on the Pause/Record button, and record only when I know what I want to say, and pause as soon as I run out of things to say. Whether I summarize or simply pull out interesting facts depends on the kind of nonfiction. For example, with the Usborne Encyclopedia of History, there’s no summarizing it because it’s not a narrative, so I just record the most important facts. But with the Look-It-Up Book of Presidents, a summary usually hits the factual high points too. When we read poems, we usually read from 5-10 poems, depending on how many we really try to analyze, and then what I do is simply ask H. which one he wants to record. If we read a famous poem, I will record that one in any case, which means that yesterday I recorded two poems; that’s OK, because kid poems are short and are nice to listen to in the recording. I find I have to speak with a very clear voice, i.e., not slurring and aspirating consonants, or the recording can be difficult to understand. Speaking too quickly is a mistake, but so is using lots of um’s and pauses. The most efficient way all around (to keep recording times down but also to make a listenable recording) is to speak clearly and deliberately, but without long pauses. Short pauses are necessary for the listener to be able to mentally process the recording. It also helps for listenability if you keep the recording as dramatic or at least as interestingly worded as possible. It would be nice if the recordings word made by a professional voice person, but since that’s not possible, just try to sound clear, convincing, engaged, maybe excited, but definitely not bored.

I use a Sony Digital Voice Recorder, I think it cost me something like $200 back when I was recording music sessions. It comes with some pretty good software (“Digital Voice Editor”), which makes it easy to save recordings quickly, organize them, and convert recording formats if necessary. At first I was saving recordings to wav format, but this increased the file size so I decided to stick with Sony’s proprietary .msv format, which combines high quality with low file size. As long as I have the software, it’s easier to go with this than to convert to wav. I also used to combine the day’s recordings automatically (which the software makes it easy to do), but H. didn’t like that, and I also found it somehow satisfying (as opposed to annoying) to start each short recording individually.

As to how I organize the recordings: I have a “Recordings” folder. Each day gets its own new folder, where I put the day’s three to six recordings. It’s easy enough to find the recordings from a week ago. After we’ve listened to the 1-week recording, I transfer it to the “To review one month” folder. Soon, after we’ve listened to the first recording made one month ago, I’ll transfer that to a new “To review three months” folder. It’s usually easy enough to find the recording to review–it’s the oldest one in any given folder (together with yesterday’s recording).

52

I just read the book “The Woman who Can’t Forget” about Jill Price and her photographic memory for things that happen to her. It was very interesting. She did many of the things you were doing. She journaled obsessively, recorded thousands of TV shows (she is a TV fanatic), collects mementos, and reviews her memory banks constantly. She is clearly OCD and cannot control her recall. It takes her over. She cannot direct her photo memory to skills such as learning math or poetry for example. The bottom line is she remembers the things she wants to and cannot remember well things she is not motivated to learn. Free will at work.

53

Dr Jones, it’s such a pleasure having you around here! Thank you for all you’re bringing to education, it’s much appreciated.

DadDude, your experiences continue to inspire. I’m sure your efforts have already proven helpful and if continued will produce tremendous benefits for H (and maybe for yourself too).

I am curious though in how you will deal with information or content that cannot be translated verbally when the time arises. Many of these online programs (which I do not use ATM) have functions of adding sound bites, pictures, and maybe video???.. I guess a powerpoint could do all of this without the algorithms for periodic review, but your method seems fairly streamlined and easily implemented. Something implemented for retention will work infinitely more than no strategy applied (which is what everyone else typically does… nothing).

Anyway… please continue to keep everyone here posted on how this method is working. I’m eager to try and emulate when the time comes.

54

PokerDad,

I really appreciated the personal experience you have had with SuperMemo. I am reading the link posted about Piotr Wozniak. It is fascinating. The operant element seems to be the best time to review is just at the point you are about to forget. That is different for everyone supposedly. It also is a little obvious. The article is a little depressing because the data given by Ebbinghaus, Wozniak and others indicate you forget the vast majority of what you learn and there doesn’t seem to be much you can do about it. I don’t agree.

I focus my methods on what people do who have incredible memory. For example, you spoke of “bits of knowledge” ala Doman. He and Wozniak were learning lists of words and facts etc. What you came up with was visuals and schemata to make it more easily memorable! Great insight. That is what prodigies do, they develop mnemonic systems. Wozniak et al seem to be studying the limits of natural memory. The phenomenal memorizers use mnemonics, trained memory it is called. Well designed mnemonics should always be visual as well as including other senses like sound, smell, touch and taste even. It does not take much effort to master Trained Memory basics. It can take a long time to take a data base of information and put it in a mnemonic format. However, if it is done for you then it is simple to memorize the information in the first place, you can do it at a glance sometimes. It is also very simple to rapidly review. I have done the Periodic Table of the Elements as a Power Point that can be reviewed in a few minutes. The original memorization of the Table may take one or two hours (or more) depending upon age, attention, general knowledge etc.

Learning lists of words or “bits” is definitely not the most effective means to learn or review. Sometimes it is necessary. As soon as possible one should use those words or facts or bits of information in a story format with as many visuals as possible to reinforce memory. With mnemonics you encode the information into pictures such as Every Good Boy Does Fine to remember the notes of the scale, remember to have a visual of a boy singing to sheet music with a piano in the picture for example along with the caption. If you don’t have a real picture imagine one or use one from memory. Surely we have all seen songs being played to sheet music. Imagine that picture each time. I would have a close up of sheet music with those notes marked on the sheet with the caption Every Good Boy Does Fine written as the lyrics of the music, the apropriate letter directly under the note marked on the sheet music.

You do not have to hold it in memory. It is the going to the memory that causes you to be able to recall it again. You are beating a neural pathway to that memory with that encoded information. It is not the time you spend thinking of the picture and caption that matters but the number of times you trod that neural pathway to finding it again. So review can be instantaneous, glimpse the picture and go on to the next. We do memory projects in units of 100. When you are hot you can go through that many pictures in memory in an amazingly brief period of time. If you cannot remember note to review that one or look at your review materials if you have them at hand and move on. The Greeks called it the Memory Theater.

Trained Memory is really the big key to effective and reliable recall of large amounts of information. It is a science, very precise in its application. Most people know what mnemonics are but are not able to program information into a trained memory format.

55

http://forum.brillkids.com/general-discussion-b5/methods-to-enhance-memory/

From an earlier post on memory-

I used these methods to teach the Periodic Table to my children. Example Elements1-10
Peg list based on association 1=pencil 2=bicycle 3=pyramid 4=racing car 5=starfish 6=dice 7=rainbow 8=octopus 9=cat
and 10=Pele etc. Bicycle has two wheels, racing car four etc.

Images used for the first 10 elements- 1 zeppelin for Hydrogen, 2 balloons for Helium, 3 camera(lithium battery) for Lithium, 4 berries for Beryllium (substitute/sound like word), 5 bored starfish for Boron, 6 coal for Carbon, 7 Trojan horse for Nitrogen(substitute word), 8 oxygen mask for Oxygen, 9 floor for Fluorine, 10 neon lights for Neon.

Choose a room and decide on locations to store your linked images-start at a corner and moving clockwise arrange your images in these locations

                              1     2        3

                              8     9         4

                              7      6        5

Starting at a corner of the room we imagined trying to puncture a noisy zeppelin with a very large pencil. Moving clockwise to the door we see a bicycle with balloons attached to the handle bars-hear the bell ring, burst a balloon. Moving clockwise to the next corner we see the pyramids and take a photograph (Lithium batteries). Again moving clockwise-between corners we see a noisy racing car-we climb in to discover that the seat is made of juicy berries-very messy! In the next corner, behind the door, we hear/see a bored starfish yawning. Location 6 we sit on our large dice shaped chair and discover that it is made of coal. Location 7-we see a beautiful rainbow leading to the wet Trojan horse. Location 8 we see an octopus struggling to breath with an oxygen mask. Location 9 we see our cat sleeping on the floor. Next room-again starting in a corner we see Pele with a giant neon 10 sign on his shoulders.

See my earlier Power Point download which covers the first 30 elements of the Periodic Table

I hope that this has made sense-the process sounds complicated but in practice the elements can be memorized very rapidly using this method.

Chris.

56

Chris1,

You clearly have a lot of knowledge and experience with mnemonics and trained memory. It works.

57

So far, so good on the memory method with us. We’ve passed the one month mark and are now listening to three sets of recordings per day. We haven’t yet missed a day of recording or of listening, which is kind of surprising to me. Sometimes H. says he just doesn’t want to continue, then I start talking like maybe we’ll quit and he quickly backtracks and says he likes it, he learns a lot from it, and so forth.

I have noticed that it takes a considerable amount of attention to stay focused throughout what is now 15-25 minutes of recordings to listen to. The recordings are, after all, nothing but information. The only reason we can stick with it is that it does, after all, remind us of something we read, and that usually has some interest for us. Sometimes I have to settle H. down…he is only five, after all…I’m not meaning to brag, but I am sure that most kids wouldn’t be able to do this. As hyper and independent as he can be, H. actually has a remarkably good attention span and he’s a very geeky kid. Just as I thought he would be. (To illustrate that further, we recently started learning/playing with Scratch, a programming language learning program from MIT, and he just plays with it endlessly as he would a game. I’m not sure if he’s learning much, but, well, he’s learning something…) Baby E. is very different, we can and do read him books, but not like I read to H. I simply can’t sit down with him anytime, the way I did with H., and read any number of books. He has to be in the mood and it’s only one or two books at a time. He’s also more extraverted and sociable. So if we can do this with baby E. when he is five, I’ll be very surprised.

UPDATE: wrote a lot more of this and made it into a blog post.

58

Sixtine Charlotte,

I have always been fascinated by your posts. I firmly believe photographic memory can be taught. I have a good memory but I am slow because I am so thorough.
Once I understand something and put it into a Trained Memory format for my students they can learn it lickedy split. That is the hope of humankind, I think,
the work of a lifetime can be passed on to a willing student in a heartbeat.

59

Sixtine Charlotte,

I am doing a free online seminar on “Natural Memory Versus Trained Memory” Friday March 28 from 1-2 pm CST. Email chris@jonesgeniuses.com to register.
I am preparing a free eBook on the topic to give away to participants. I hope you can participate. It is open to anyone.

60

I planned on attending the memory seminar by Dr. Jones, and, somewhat ironically, forgot about it. I had a feeling that was going to happen, :frowning:

Am curious how DadDude’s recall sessions are going? Are you still doing them? If so, what changes or differences are you noticing with H from before embarking on this exercise?

A thread popped up in the last few days on a poker forum discussing how to assimilate notes from learning sessions. I think I’m perhaps the only one that does spaced repetition; but this morning, someone posted the following article, which goes hand and hand with spaced repetition and is germane to the discussion.

http://psych.wustl.edu/memory/Roddy%20article%20PDF’s/Roediger%20&%20Karpicke%20(2006)%20Review.pdf

this article appears to discuss how testing, or questioning, involves a deeper process than passive review… questioning is a key component of spaced repetition programs such as Anki or SuperMemo

EDIT: anytime an author invokes a quantum mechanics analogy in their writing, I’ll probably experience amorous feelings, lol