East vs West early learning education.

Early Learning Early Learning General Discussions
1

The more I read about Right brain education the more and more intrigued I become about east vs west education.

I would like to know more about the differences between both and what both have in common.

Here is what I have noticed so far,

East,
Big emphasis on right brain education,
Big emphasis on early learning education, the younger the better
Structured learning time.
Learning through imagry

West.
Learn through Play
No structured learning time until child goes to school at approx 4-5yrs of age
Learning through rote
“Let kids be kids attitude” particularly in Australia

I would like to know what other differences there are? I think there are many positives and negatives to both ways of learning and I would like to make my dd a curriculum with the best of both worlds, But I would love some imput from others on what way is the best way to go about it? Any help?

2

I have noted in certain Asian countries the emphasis on learning is very extreme compared to Australia. Here people find it extreme if kids do language school on Saturday morning, or Kumon on some after school times. My kids school tries to minimise homework, so often they dont do anything school related after school or on the weekends. Yet though the tertiary entrance scores have been quite pitiful, they persist in this thinking. It’s family time! Time for sporting activities. People have church committments! People must have a day of rest…on the Lords day/Sabbath.
Sorry, but all added up, there’s an awful lot of resting. They arent instilling a love or understanding of the necessity of learning. Learning is just for school…not outside of school. I fight an uphill battle to get them to do anything after school, including their occasional assignments…they’re so used to bludging. Australia is known to be a nation of bludgers.
And asians are known to be hard-working and studious, with strict parenting. Hence I plan to homeschool my younger ones, to eliminate the peer pressure to be the norm…lazy and non-achieving. So they learn what I will teach…do lots of study, learn a lot, multiple languages are great, and kids do household chores everyday. If you ever watch those shows like “wife swap” or “worlds strictest parents”…those teenagers just show how bad the western world is. Their attitudes stink, they’re so disrespectful to parents, so lazy at home and at school. And most of that, speaking from personal experience, is a result of sending them to school. My kids complain their friends dont do housework. They dont want to do housework when their friends are over, as it is always commented on and criticised. I fight a battle against these parents who teach their kids to be do-nothings. I’m trying to establish a work ethic here that is undermined by other parents and how they train their children. A work ethic of “many hands make light work” and team work.
So I say, follow the Asian model as close as is possible for a westerner. Cos the Western model is sorely lacking in good results.

3

Re “learning through imagery” for Asians vs “learning through rote” for Westerners, actually, I would have thought the opposite.

First of all, I think the opposites should be “learning through creative thinking” vs “learning through rote”, and my impression is that the US educational system does the best to encourage creative thinking overall (not talking about early education, but more in general).

The UK system (and therefore maybe the Australian system too?) is more “by rote”, and I think the Asian system is in general even worse in that respect.

I believe that the use of imagery is more isolated to institutions like Shichida and other right-brain institutes, of which there are not many, and which are not prevalent at all.

4

Wow Nikita- that is certainly an interesting point of view, I kind of felt that way but have never really thought that the way the children weren’t learning ‘good work ethic’ was because of school. I always thought it was the parents. But I am starting to see it is school as they spend so much time there and all the hardwork the parents put in seems to be undone by children whose parents don’t value hard work

My husband and I have been talking about the education system in Australia and we are very much leaning towards homeschooling. It seems to be common in the US but apparently only 2% of children are homeschooled here. Are you homeschooling already or planning to? Of course our friends and families are going to think we are odd especially with a few of them in lecturer and teacher positions.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts
natalie

5

“Knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world” from Albert Einstein.

6

Natalie…I have made numerous comments about the effects of schooling on my 3 older children, usually in the homeschooling section. As the days go by and I’m tearing my hair out more and more, the more convinced I am school is a BAD place, the sort of place you’d want to send them to learn bad habits, bad attitudes, bad beliefs (not even religious ones), bad behavior and suchlike. And to be treated badly by their peers and teachers also.
My two oldest girls just got back from a week-long school camp yesterday. My 2nd oldest has had no end of hell over the years at this school, but everytime I go to pull her out she makes up with the nasty girls or the school finally steps in to do something about the boys bullying and abusive behaviour. One particular boy has caused her the most hell, verbally abusing her a lot over the years, swearing at her, criticising her, belittling her and humiliating her infront of her schoolmates. After she returned from camp with eyes swollen and a stuffy nose from crying I was so horrified by what she told me of her experience on camp I went to the office and told them she wont be returning.
This boy just kept swearing at her, calling her names, and eventually told her to take an overdose of pills and kill herself. This behaviour is well-known to the school, and I want her protected from it. The teacher who is most aware of this found her crying and asked what was wrong. She said one word…the boy’s name. This teacher just said “Stop! I dont want to hear about …!” And later punished her for something she didnt do, despite the fact others could have verified this, by making her vacuum the camp hall and wipe all the tables by herself! They just have a horrible attitude toward her, and towards me for sticking up for her. I wished I’d never put her in that school, or school at all. Alas, she has learned from this Christian school, that homeschoolers are weird. So refuses to be homeschooled. Because she cares about what her peers think.

7

I am so sorry Nikita …that sounds so traumatic. I cant believe the teachers refuse to do anything about it and wont even hear a complaint about this boy. Actually I went through much the same thing when I was in school in London…it was a posh school and there was a lot of underlying racism. Perhaps you can change her school? Are there any other good schools in your area? If your daughter is averse to home schooling, why dont you have a go in another school and if that also turns out to be a bad experience (and I hope it wont be), then you can put forward the homeschool option to your child again and maybe she will be more amenable.

I hope things get better. I remember what it was like to be bullied and it really undermines a child’s confidence, particularly if the teachers dont help. But even if the teachers do step in, then the children/bullies persecute the child later on when the teacher isnt looking so the ‘victim’ is often scared to tell the teacher. In any event, my advice is to take your child out of this school which doesnt protect and respect both your child or you.

xxxx

8

Refuses to be homeschooled? You’re the parent! You can take her out, even if she doesn’t want to be taken out. I’m sure if you give it enough time she will realize that she is not at all “weird,” and that life at school isn’t worth it. Just my opinion…

9

Did you try complaining to higher authority? Like the education board or ministry or something? If the teachers and head masters ignore you, make it your business to get the education inspectors on board, that boy maybe some teachers child or relative or some big shot son, and they turned a blind eye. But if you make it big, in a democratic country like Australia … the civic community would and should sit up and listen about bullying in school and such acts as telling someone to go overdose themselve. Otherwise australia would be as backward as china and india in their social system. Get a group of parents whose kids were tormented by that boy and write a formal letter of complain to your MP or PM. and if this child is some officials kid, then there is neopotism and collusion between school and officials, which is no different from corruption in a 3rd world country which australia often cites in its human rights review. Personally though i prefer a tooth for a tooth. Get your girl trained in martial arts, because there are going to be lots of brutes like that … turning into adult drunks, and rapist, and most likely children tormentors and wife beaters.

10

I chose to be homeschooled when I turned 17 :slight_smile: I thought i wasn’t gaining much from school and saw it as a waste of time. The hardest part was to convince my parents! :yes: who were worried as it was my final high school year.
But I did fine and loved it so much I had my 2 university degree the same way (distance learning).

11

I probably posted on the forum over the last school term my recent experiences.
Alas, this is an independent christian school. I rang the ministry of education anonymously about 4 months ago…they couldnt do anything due to it being a private school. I contacted the governing body for independent christian schools anonymously. They couldnt do anything as they have no authority over the schools…they are Independent!! They have no-one to answer to except the parents of the school, as it is a “parent controlled” independent Christian school. Unfortunately, as it is a christian school, there is a belief that pervades of not taking action against the school, as the bible says to resolve differences between christians privately, and do not go to court (and hence the media or the public or suing) against your siblings in Christ.
So for me to take action, I’ll be looked at as 2nd to satan. I’ve tried to resolve issues privately, but it just goes on and on. Yes, she is going to another school. I’m the parent, but I’m just one parent, and my ex-husband has legal rights decided in our custody order, that we have to agree on schooling issues. And he wont agree to homeschooling, hence she went to school in the first place, and now he wont agree to me putting her in another school. But I will anyway, as I believe the courts would support me in that endeavour. But not so likely the homeschooling.
The school she wants to go to she has a cousin there, and another friend is going there next year, so I hope it will prove a positive experience, and hopefully she wont experience what she has at this school. And thus prove it’s not just HER.
The other problem is getting christian parents to act. They wont go against the school, they just remove the kids. It’s like taking action against a church. People just dont do it, for fear of being hated. For me, All I can do now other than remove her is sue. If it was a public school I wouldve sued long ago.

12

Hi Nikita

Thats sounds horrid - your poor daughter. It also reminded me of the horrible teasing that I (as well as most other children) got. Kids can be so cruel- they don’t realise the impact words have. I often wonder how different people’s confidence would have been without being in the schooling system
Does your daughter not want to be homeschooled? It seems to be such a difficult decision but instinct tells me that with all the bullying and society seeming to be tolerating worse behaviour (shown by the things allowed on TV) that homeschooling would be best- what support do you have in Australia and what does everyone think of the socialisation aspect of homeschooling- especially with an only child

Natalie

13

It has been hell. Last week of last term I found out another boy had been repeatedly molesting her…grabbing her breasts at school, in class! And a boy (her boyfriend) who stood up for her and slapped this boy got immediatedly expelled! I have had the principal put me down twice for allowing her to have a boyfriend. Hello, I said, I dont allow it…she has had one behind my back, at school. Had she not been at school, she wouldnt have met these boys…
I’ve just been proactive now, as I know about the boyfriend through another parent, and I can monitor them and what they get up to. Previously she was sneaking around, and not able to talk to me about issues involving boyfriends, or catfighting about boyfriends.
Now she can. But I’ll be homeschooling the younger ones, and they wont be mingling with boys in such a way as to get a boyfriend so young. Or have her boobs groped either. The school took 3 days to talk to the breast groping boy, and he hasnt been expelled!
my daughter is 12, her bf is 15. He was kept down, and then they are in a composite class with Year 7s and 8s mingling, so they’re paths crossed. Actually the school seem to think this boy is a lowlife, yet he has been very sweet to my daughter, and supportive through her school crises…if it werent for him I wouldnt know about the boy molesting her, it would still be going on, and the school wouldnt know either.
So you can see I have some good reasons to sue.
As for homeschooling, it’s quite accepted here in some circles. Socialization is the issue everyone says, but I’d rather them socialise a lot less and have a lot less stress. How is socialising benefitting her?? It’s hurting her.

14

My gosh, Nikita’s story is really bad, and explains a lot about the attitude against “fitting in” and being in school in the “too much knowledge” thread. Frankly, it doesn’T sound so much about East vs West early learning education, and much more about the sort of cult-like community atmosphere of private schoools, esp those with a religious or other ideological bent, where people feel attached and supportive of the school , teachers and other families, even if the behaviour is very bad. No outside control or sanctions available, no higher authority, no willing to go against what is bad, for fear of undermining the religion or ideology. Of course even small towns can be like this… where families in positions of influence or power are not brought down or outed for bad behaviour for fear of being thrown out and ostracised from the community.

I am not sure that teaching by rote, or the amount of homework or learning outside school, or the amount of housework and chores has anything to do with it. It sounds like a lot of very bad community behaviour. Here there is a lot of programs about bullying, harrassment, both sexual and otherwise etc, in the schools, to make both children and teachers aware of the standards, alternatives, systems for speaking out etc. The situation Nikita describes just sounds unacceptable from any point of view, and I am sure there can be bullying or sexual harrassment even if children learn on weekends and do chores.

I am a bit like Nikita in that I think that learning should be not confined to school and also children should have chores and responsibilities. I also think they should be responsible for things like walking to school, caring for pets etc. My son is only 3 but if he takes his bike he is responsible for it. He must ride it, push it or carry it, not me. And he locks it up himself. He must feed the dog, hang up his clothes etc.

And he sees me all the time learning chinese, practicing writing etc, as well as we take the opportunity to learn whenever it arises. On the other hand, I don’t believe that children should have homework all the time and be sitting at a table or desk doing lots of “learning”… Sometimes we need to learn by playing in the mud, or watching the construction workers building, or watching Dora in Chinese. Sometimes he needs to learn to entertain himself without having someone tell him “do this’ do that”… I hope as he gets older to lead him to delve further into subjects he is interested in… how to research things, to take learning further, to find people to instruct him etc. I do know that some children in Asian countries live at school, and don’t play all week, and only go home on the weekend. I am sorry, I just don’t think that life is only to go to school. Or only to do " copy your letters over and over, then do the timestables, then read the dictionary and do flashcards for vocabulary" even if it is homeschooling and not in an institution.

15

yeah sound more like a devil school then a christian school. WHose the christian authority in Australia?? Don’t tell me some 20 yrs later the little boys going to come out and say the priest molested them and so on and so forth like in the US… Its making christians sound like a joke and giving it a very very bad name. But then anybody would do anything in the name of GOD even if its not what GOD intended, its just people misusing that faith for their own interest… very bad very bad. Perhaps just dump the school cite your concern on a forum and let other parents know of it. Who cares if the devil marks you as the so called devil, people will know the true who is the real devil right? DUmp them and change school or your girl will have to suffer for life, and probably being psychoed to be one of those virgin maidens to be the number xxx wife of some priest whose a relative of the school. then again you can cite your concern to the vatican or sth. At the end of the day they still have to be answerable to GOD right?

Sounds like one of those 16th 17th century witch hunt thing.

16

It’s just so stressful. I’ve had to put it in the hands of the lawyer now. My ex-husband rang my daughter and insisted she go back there. He’s refusing to allow her to enrol at the new school. He is travelling 4 hours tomorrow to ensure this happens, so I have to take action to prevent her being forced back there. His attitude might seem strange to you all, but he is a control freak who insisted I let my children have access at his house, when he was tearing down walls of fibro cement sheeting knowing they were asbestos (and telling me that it wasnt). I had to take legal action there to force him to remove it, and refused access until then. He had deliberately been ripping a bit here and there for years, so there were fibres everywhere. Really strange. (And we could all develop asbestos related diseases thanks to his rotten behaviour).
And I have to have an exit interview with the principal before they’ll allow her to go, or release reports, schoolwork, confiscated items etc. I refused. No more interviews with the principal…she just gets more hostile each time. She can deal with us through a lawyer, particularly now I have to battle the ex when I try to keep the peace with him. I have a small baby, who has had health issues…I dont need any more stress.

17

Nikita - sorry you are having such a hard time with the school system and also with your ex. I really hope you can get it sorted out in the best interests of your daughter - being 12 is pretty difficult even in the best circumstances so it would be really great if she could be in a happy school.

I believe that children’s education is supposed to prepare them for life after school (or homeschooling) I am not sure that either the east or west is preparing children to cope in the real world - firstly we group them according to age which is never done in the adult world, then we allow bullying which while it happens in the work place, it is discouraged because it results in lower production (in schools we seem to care little about production) We also restrict their education to learning a curriculum rather than what is important for life - it is very hard in the middle of a curriculum to focus on real events that are happening and possibly affecting them - for example did anyone’s children study what a recession is and why their parents aren’t taking them on holiday in the recent recession? While some may have touched on it I have my doubts many schools did.

I would like to homeschool my daughter. At the moment she is booked into a christian school for 2011, but if I can afford to stop work I would like her to stay home and possibly join a school for sports or music classes because socialisation is important too. What I would like to know is how many children actually enjoy school? School doesn’t seem to have changed much since I was there and yet the world has changed a lot which means she will get even more behind by going to school than we did when we were there.

18

One thing I think is an important subject to learn, but isnt taught in schools, is how to become wealthy, through property investment and suchlike. To give kids tools to run their own businesses, rather than spend their lives working for others and receiving a weekly wage. Things like setting up an ebay shop or online business.
They also dont learn about how to have a successful marriage and raise a family properly. We do these things with only what we have been shown from our own family situations. I want to utilize books out there to help my children choose wisely and to not take any sort of abuse. I shall use myself as an example of silly mistakes.
They need to know tools for use in REAL LIFE.

19

Nikita, that is just what many homeschoolers say. The socialization issue is very firmly on their side. Kids who are homeschooled are, in general, more polite, less alienated from their parents and adults generally, more comfortable with themselves, less apt to follow the crowd (or to want to), and in general better able to fit in with the adult world that education is ostensibly preparing them for. Look up some discussions of this online, you’ll see.

20

I know! I know some homeschooled kids, and adults.
And guess what. I just had an appointment at my daughters new school. She cant be enrolled there until I can get a court order waiving the previous court order and overturning my ex-husbands wishes. So at the moment she is “between schools”. Her father is expected here today to drag her back to school (I told him he wasnt welcome after our phone conversation last night), and she wants to tell him if he doesnt allow her to go to the new school, she never wants anything more to do with him. Forcing her back there is child abuse/neglect as far as I’m concerned. It’s in a lawyers hands now. I have no choice in that now.
It’s a sad situation all around. But one upshot…by default, I get my first homeschooling gig!